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Old 05-18-2011, 07:36 PM   #361 (permalink)
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Dirty, do you like any rap not from the 90's?
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Old 05-18-2011, 09:08 PM   #362 (permalink)
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I read the Teagan and Sara thing and thought it was a valid opinion and totally get where she is coming from. Makes sense to me.

I haven't listened to this album yet. I plan to soon. The idiots and the computer tech place lost part of my computer so they had to send away for a new part. But anyways, I youtubed a couple songs off Goblin. I see myself starting to already dislike Tyler, and can easily see myself eventually seeing him as one of my least favorite artists. I feel like he's already amassed this following of people who may like his music, but are just as happy to feel like they are on the bandwagon before it gets too crowded. It's like, you see this guy who you know is gonna be big and you wanna like him, so maybe you over exaggerate how good he is or what you think of him. Liking someone like Tyler probably has some kind of edgy vibe or coolness attached to it in some weird way. The people who recognize this type of reasoning behind their fanhood don't admit it anyways-they profusely deny it, but that's how I feel.
Your big on the whole 'bandwagon thing' lately, aren't you? I guess I can't say I just like his music though, since I'd just be profusely denying my fanhood.

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If any of the above made sense to anyone but me, I can't be sure. But that has mostly to do with the fans and not the content. I don't want to jump to an opinion on Goblin before I listen to it cause I could end up really enjoying it. The horrorcore type image and lyrics just get sol old, so fast for me. The lyrics and flow aren't particularly impressive to me. The beats are really basic (yeah i know, 'they are supposed to be!!'). I'm just not feelin it anymore. When I first heard them I was all like OMG SOMETHING NEW AND DIFFERENT AWESOME!!!!!!! and now I feel like subconsciously maybe I wanted to be on the bandwagon before it picked up speed. Because listening to this stuff again I'm really not seeing many great qualities I enjoy
So the music's not for you, nothing wrong with that. Can't see how you dislike simple, minimalistic beats and like Wu-Tang Clan though.
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Old 05-18-2011, 11:33 PM   #363 (permalink)
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Dirty, do you like any rap not from the 90's?
I've been listening to Wiz for a few years. Haven't listened to his last release though. He was terrible live but that was before he was a star. I dig some of his stuff. Probably my favorite newer guy is Cudi, I like most of his songs. And sometimes I like a Kanye tune but I respect him more for his beats and producing ability than his rapping.


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Your big on the whole 'bandwagon thing' lately, aren't you? I guess I can't say I just like his music though, since I'd just be profusely denying my fanhood.


So the music's not for you, nothing wrong with that. Can't see how you dislike simple, minimalistic beats and like Wu-Tang Clan though.

I'm making a general statement and that's exactly what I think about Tyler. He's got some skills to be where he's at, but after a handful of listens it just becomes so old to me... Raping, killing, raping, killing...snore. I am sure a lot of people like his music and I'm sure there's people who genuinely like every artist's music, but I definitely see the bandwagon vibe from a lot of Tyler's fans. It's something new and different and people wanna feel like they are along for the ride before he blows up, even though he's already there. I think people exagerrate how much they like Tyler (not speaking about this forum, just in general). It's like when someone wants to like someone or something really bad so they almost force themselves. I don't think you are a retard, so I think you knew I wasn't saying it's impossible to like his music without being on some kind of bandwagon.

RZA cooks up some simple beats but they aren't as simple as these. I think Tyler's are much simpler, which obviously a lot of people don't mind. I'm not even saying I hate simple beats, I'm saying I don't think I like the product as a whole. Tyler's songs so far are those type of songs I'd give a listen a few times just to see what's up, but it's not something I'd go back to. I still haven't listened to Goblin completely though.
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Old 05-18-2011, 11:55 PM   #364 (permalink)
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I'm making a general statement and that's exactly what I think about Tyler. He's got some skills to be where he's at, but after a handful of listens it just becomes so old to me... Raping, killing, raping, killing...snore. I am sure a lot of people like his music and I'm sure there's people who genuinely like every artist's music, but I definitely see the bandwagon vibe from a lot of Tyler's fans. It's something new and different and people wanna feel like they are along for the ride before he blows up, even though he's already there. I think people exagerrate how much they like Tyler (not speaking about this forum, just in general). It's like when someone wants to like someone or something really bad so they almost force themselves. I don't think you are a retard, so I think you knew I wasn't saying it's impossible to like his music without being on some kind of bandwagon.

RZA cooks up some simple beats but they aren't as simple as these. I think Tyler's are much simpler, which obviously a lot of people don't mind. I'm not even saying I hate simple beats, I'm saying I don't think I like the product as a whole. Tyler's songs so far are those type of songs I'd give a listen a few times just to see what's up, but it's not something I'd go back to. I still haven't listened to Goblin completely though.
Yes Tyler gained most of his fans through internet word of mouth and self-promotion, i don't know how any artist gains popularity without forming some form of "bandwagon", he is new after all.

Most of his fans are willing to admit his faults, many of which you pointed out. Tyler isn't nearly as one dimensional as your making him out to be. I don't know how you can lose interest in an artist like tyler- who actually gets fairly introspective at moments- and continue to listen to Wiz Khalifa, who has yet to rap about something other then smoking weed.

You say "something new and different" like it's just some casual occurrence that shouldn't be recognized. Tyler's music isn't really great as a whole yet, but at least we can agree it's refreshing.
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Old 05-19-2011, 12:14 AM   #365 (permalink)
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Yes Tyler gained most of his fans through internet word of mouth and self-promotion, i don't know how any artist gains popularity without forming some form of "bandwagon", he is new after all.

Most of his fans are willing to admit his faults, many of which you pointed out. Tyler isn't nearly as one dimensional as your making him out to be. I don't know how you can lose interest in an artist like tyler- who actually gets fairly introspective at moments- and continue to listen to Wiz Khalifa, who has yet to rap about something other then smoking weed.

You say "something new and different" like it's just some casual occurrence that shouldn't be recognized. Tyler's music isn't really great as a whole yet, but at least we can agree it's refreshing.
I'm not talking about how he got fans. I'm just saying that I think a lot of people really want to like Tyler and exaggerrate how good he really is. It's like if somehow people lived in a vacuum and just heard his songs, I don't think they'd be incredibly impressed. But I feel like everyone recognizes he is something different and wants to like him. It's hard for me to explain, but I'll give an example that might help:

Ok, you sneak into a high-class Superbowl party. Everyone there is someone important- agents, ex-players, playboy models, wannabe playboy models, wealthy businessmen, etc. The party is mainly everyone drinking and eyeing each other up from across the room, not anything particularly fun or crazy...but what would most people do? They'd get home to their friends and say BRO THE PARTY WAS AWESOME! There were a ton of hot models and players and shit, i talked to LeBron's agent awhile and it was off the chain, man!!!

In reality it wasn't really a crazy party,AND THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYIN ABOUT TYLER. If that makes any sense.

I like Wiz when I'm partying or smoking. I don't think he's a lyrical genius or anything but I'm starting to learn I don't exclusively have to like either party stuff or lyrical/impressive stuff. They are two seperate things to me. I'm pretty against stoner rap in general because I think it's played out and weak but I generally bump along to Wiz when I'm in the partyin mood.

And I get the new and different aspect of Tyler and I think it's pretty cool to hear different stuff. But new and different doesn't automatically make it good. I really don't see much of the other dimensions you speak of so far. It's not something i wanna blare in my car or party to or even sit around and listen to all that often. I don't find myself coming back for more.
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Old 05-19-2011, 12:25 AM   #366 (permalink)
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Except that party is on the Jimmy Fallon show, and tyler the creator just performed his ass off in front of millions of viewers.

But yeah, Tyler is very candid in interviews and has really good presence in front of camera's, and this of course is part of his appeal. Personally, i like him more just for saying **** kid cudi and bob, and wanting to stab bruno mars in his asophagus. It's all great stuff, and nobody else around is really being as open and direct.
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Old 05-19-2011, 06:32 AM   #367 (permalink)
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Sounds like yet another person who can't separate the artist from the art. Here's an idea Sara: I won't call for a change from your dull and highly derivative indie pop if you won't call for change from other artists. M'kay? Thanks.
I don't fully understand this. I think it can work one way, say if you don't like the artist's personality or worldviews, but still like the music he produces and which doesn't reflect this, but I don't see how you can ignore the blatant homophobia and mysoginy explicitly expressed in the art and disconnect them from the person who made them.

And I also don't see a problem with her (or anyone else) speaking their mind against such arists who facilitate the spreading of hate and intolerance which, given his ever spreading audience and their age-group, is potentially problematic.

And given the social group he belongs to and their general machismo values, I'd be extremely surprised if he wasn't actually homophobic (even if not the "let's kill faggots" kind).
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Old 05-19-2011, 07:26 AM   #368 (permalink)
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I don't fully understand this. I think it can work one way, say if you don't like the artist's personality or worldviews, but still like the music he produces and which doesn't reflect this, but I don't see how you can ignore the blatant homophobia and mysoginy explicitly expressed in the art and disconnect them from the person who made them.
Hmmm, well I'm not actually a fan of Tyler so it's hard for me to defend him except to say that I think he's actually being satirical in his music. My point, though, is that one can appreciate art as an expression of something even if that something is hateful and ugly. Take the painter Francis Bacon for example. By most accounts he was a horrible, abusive person and he made artwork that was violent and ugly. Not a person I'd ever want to spend time with on a personal level but nevertheless he's one of my favorite painters. Why? Because his art expresses something so strong and so powerful, ugly and nasty as it is, that I can't help but appreciate his work.

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And I also don't see a problem with her (or anyone else) speaking their mind against such arists who facilitate the spreading of hate and intolerance which, given his ever spreading audience and their age-group, is potentially problematic.
She's free to say whatever she wants but likewise I'm certainly entitled to have an opinion about it. The problem I personally have with calls to stifle art like this is where does it end? There are plenty of people in this world who would love to stifle art that is critical of religion or government as well because to them that is hateful.

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And given the social group he belongs to and their general machismo values, I'd be extremely surprised if he wasn't actually homophobic (even if not the "let's kill faggots" kind).
What social group is that?
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Old 05-19-2011, 07:46 AM   #369 (permalink)
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Hmmm, well I'm not actually a fan of Tyler so it's hard for me to defend him except to say that I think he's actually being satirical in his music. My point, though, is that one can appreciate art as an expression of something even if that something is hateful and ugly. Take the painter Francis Bacon for example. By most accounts he was a horrible, abusive person and he made artwork that was violent and ugly. Not a person I'd ever want to spend time with on a personal level but nevertheless he's one of my favorite painters. Why? Because his art expresses something so strong and so powerful, ugly and nasty as it is, that I can't help but appreciate his work.
I don't think that's a valid comparison. Unless I'm grossly misinformed, I don't think Bacon's art was offensive to a specific group of people or targeted anyone based on their characteristics/natural traits/preferences.

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She's free to say whatever she wants but likewise I'm certainly entitled to have an opinion about it. The problem I personally have with calls to stifle art like this is where does it end? There are plenty of people in this world who would love to stifle art that is critical of religion or government as well because to them that is hateful.
Being critical of something isn't the same as spreading prejudice and hate. One is constructive, the other is not.
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What social group is that?
Rappers. :/
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Old 05-19-2011, 07:54 AM   #370 (permalink)
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I don't think that's a valid comparison. Unless I'm grossly misinformed, I don't think Bacon's art was offensive to a specific group of people or targeted anyone based on their characteristics/natural traits/preferences.
From what I know of Tyler's music he isn't targeting anyone either. His lyrics are pretty much just generally misanthropic.

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Being critical of something isn't the same as spreading prejudice and hate. One is constructive, the other is not.
You're assuming that everyone agrees on which is which though. Problem is they don't.
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