Janszoon

The amount of time someone puts into a piece of art isn't really the deciding factor in how good it is though. It would be kind of nice if simple hard work was what made a song good or bad but really the final product is what matters most. Sometimes a great final product is the result of lots of hard work but sometimes it's just very off the cuff thing.

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boo boo

I like simple rock music, but it just seems very skilled musicians get a bum rap because they don't waste their talents making the same kind of basic rock n roll that everyone else does.

I feel that progressive rock and a lot of classic rock bands especially takes an unfair beating for it, because they take the more complex approach.

So for example, while I'd say Never Mind the Bollocks is as good as say... Inner Mounting Flame by Mahavishnu Orchestra. I have to give more credit to the band that actually put a lot of skill and effort into their product.

Or another example, I find Fall Out Boy and Dream Theater to be about equally unbearable to listen to. But I give DT more credit for a variety of reasons, one of them is that they can actually play their instruments and play them well, and another is that they seem to actually appreciate music and love what they do, rather than just being in it solely for the money. So for that, even though I f*cking loathe Dream Theater, I respect them, because I sure as hell couldn't do what they do for a living if my life depended on it.

But anybody could do Pete Wentz' job.

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Janszoon

It's funny but I feel like it's pretty much the opposite. All those classic rock guys get held up as the gods in the pantheon of rock n roll while the punk and post-punk musicians are kind of neglected.

Meh. I bet a lot of the difference in our perception probably comes from our difference in age too. I grew up in a time when those 70s guys were totally worshipped, but maybe when you were growing up the punks were getting more worship.

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Antonio

imo, it's the song that matters in the end. if it's a good technical song, i respect it the same if it's a good catchy song. if the song sounds good, then i like it. i've heard plenty of extremely skilled musicians that bore the hell out of me and dudes who know a few chords that have made great songs and vice versa.

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boo boo

Well that's not the case here at all, and certainly not for critics.

There are some punk bands I love, I have a modest punk library from 20 or so punk bands. But IMO the best punk bands tend to be more gifted than other punk bands on a technical level. Like The Minutemen and X. Though I also love Ramones just as much as the next person.

Overall I find the legacy of punk to be rather phony. I don't like the concept of music being this thing where image is REALLY important, prog bands consist of dorky guys with balding mullets and porn staches, it's like the one rock genre that just lets the music sell itself, no need for a fashion line. The idea that punk saved rock n roll from progressive rock is absurd, prog was already getting kicked to the curb by the time punk showed up. Granted the late 70s did get really awful what with Foreigner and all and punk and new wave did make that half of the decade worthwhile, punk does deserve credit for that, without it, the 80s would have been nothing but Toto and Night Ranger.

But I feel punk did more harm then good in the long run, yes it lead to new wave and it lead to Pixies, Sonic Youth and Nirvana, blah blah. But to me aside from Joy Division, Wire and some Gang of Four songs, I never cared for post punk at all. It's like diet punk, punk without the fun, in other words it's something a 3 year old could do AND it's boring.

Then of course post punk begat goth rock which begat emo which begat "fake" emo

Punk begat pop punk which begat even worse pop punk.

Punk begat alternative which begat grunge which begat post grunge.

Punk begat hardcore which begat post-hardcore and grindcore which begat metalcore.

Punk begat new wave which begat synth pop which begat crappy synth pop which begat dance punk.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm reading out of the bible, but it seems that punk is responsable for just about 90% of everything that sucks about rock music today.

The punk movement seemed to have the concept that the ideal rock band is just a bunch of guys with no real talent who just crap out 1 minute songs, but what really matters is that they're having fun, and I like fun music, but I like it to be good too. I just don't get it, to me it's just an excuse for being lazy. And while there has been some great punk bands (at least up until the mid 80s) all that's left of it now is it's impact on what is ironically, awful corporate rock music.

And while theres still good things to come out of punk, as of now, I think prog is not only making a comeback, it's becoming increasingly more relevant, it'll probably overshadow punk in the future, I think the reason is because while prog was once overexposed by the media and punk was this refreshing new thing, now it's punk that's overpraised and overexposed, and it's prog that seems foreign and new to people. A lot of younger people have never heard of prog, both because it's mostly ignored by the media and because their parents are punk rockers or metalheads who got burned out on prog when they were kids, so to them it's brand new.

In other words the roles have switched, and I feel this cycle will continue forever. Simple rock music has gotten so popular that now people want something completely different, complex music. But rest assured once prog dominates rock n roll again, punk or something like it will be there to sh*t on it's parade once again. And that conflict of music philosophy will last forever.

The Mars Volta, Porcupine Tree, Muse, Coheed & Cambria, Sigur Ros, Isis, Tool and Battles are among the best bands we have today IMO, I know a lot of people hate the f*ck out of them. Likely because they fear the inevitable prog revival.

Sure it's reputation isn't clean yet (f*cking prog metal) but even so prog hasn't been as popular as it is now since the early 70s.

So to sum up this fanboy rant that is sure to enrage punk fans everywhere. What comes around goes around.

I didn't listen to the radio much as a kid, just watched MTV. And after I got bored of Limp Bizkit and Kid Rock. I got into classic rock, it was completely foreign to me, and so I don't see why I should hate it because other people have been overexposed to it and now hate it.

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FireInCairo

You're such a progger booboo.

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Janszoon

Depends on what critics you're talking about I guess.

You shouldn't hate it. It's what you like and that's cool. I'm just saying that your experience where you feel like you've had punk shoved down your throat is like the experience I had with classic rock. Like I said before I think it's a product of us growing up in somewhat different eras.

As for your comments about postpunk, I've loved it for ages and you know what? It got zero recognition for the longest time. It wasn't until this decade when the neo postpunk bands started showing up that anybody really started giving it any press at all. The idea of actually encountering sizable numbers of people who like it is still a very foreign concept for me.

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A Night in the Life of the Invisible Man

Time & Place

25 Albums You Should Hear Before the Moon Crashes into the Earth and We All Die

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The Music Watchtower

So punk was king and now its time for Prog rock to shine once again? I don't suppose that we can expect many 3 min wonders with prog rock? Clear my blurred vision but wasn't prog rock full of moog keyboards and other daft synths going on for days?

Are you guys saying that the next genre to shine is going to be most popular as bedtime music?!!

boo boo

Uh.

I don't even know what you're asking.

Prog started out as a very underground offshoot of psychedelic rock. It just kinda exploded in the early 70s, then you had offshoots of it like arena rock, bands like Styx and Toto. For a while it was very overexposed. And people got tired of it and punk rock came into full form. It was the alternative to progressive rock which was considered bloated and pretentious.

Prog was already on the way out by the time punk showed up, it didn't die so much as it was banished into obscurity, but it continued to the exist with bands like Marillion and Pendragon and it stayed under the rader until bands like Muse, Porcupine Tree and The Mars Volta showed up.

So anyway, today punk is blown out and many of it's byproducts have left a nasty mark on the music industry, punk is currently in a similar position to what prog once had. And yes there is a growing increase in bands with progressive rock influences that are also enjoying mainstream success. There's certainly a growing interest in the genre, you can see it here, and you can see it when bands like Porcupine Tree are The Mars Volta make it into the billboard 100.

Now I do like punk, hence my monkier. I'm not saying punk is gonna die or should die, but it needs a break, and I think prog as both a genre and a movement has had more than enough time to finally win back the respect and popularity it once had.

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Guybrush

I think a problem with prog was that it didn't have much of a message back then. It didn't really speak to a generation the same way punk did when it came. For example, I can imagine how the punk wave spoke to and empowered young brits who were angry with the way things were in England in the late 70s. It was music by them for them.

That said, punk that doesn't oppose or have anything to say is godsdamn awful I think. Example, punk songs about high school romance. Dur.


I listened to a lot of punk when I was a rebellious teenager. Now that I'm in my late 20s, I tend to appreciate music less for the message and more for just being pleasing to my ears. Although I still love the occasional classic punk song, I listen to a lot more prog these days.

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