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Old 03-10-2006, 06:59 PM   #181 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don
Scholarly journals are the highest form of credible information, so mocking them is just plain ludicrous.

Scholarly journals can also be modified. How do we know that you didn't edit it?
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Old 03-10-2006, 07:00 PM   #182 (permalink)
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How can you edit a published article?
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Old 03-10-2006, 07:05 PM   #183 (permalink)
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Sure The Used draw slightly from the mid 90s style of indie infleunced emo but does that really make them an emo band? I think not. Lets use an example, lets say The Pop Group.

The Pop Group draw influences from dub and jazz music as well as numerous other genres. Does this make them a dub band? No.
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Old 03-10-2006, 07:13 PM   #184 (permalink)
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When did I ever say "The Used are an emo band?" This is not what I'm arguing here. Everyone's saying that The Used aren't emo at all. I'm saying what you just said, they drew influences and consequently emo shows in some of their tracks.

"The Pop Group draw influences from dub and jazz music as well as numerous other genres. Does this make them a dub band? No."

Having influences is entirely different to applying those influences directly into your music. DT's primary influences are mostly prog-rock band like Yes, Rush and Pink Floyd. This doesn't mean DT are are just clones of them. But they took the prog-rock elements from that music and made it their own by making it heavier and whatever. So they have many prog metal tracks, but of course, not all their music is prog metal. So if someone asked me what type of music DT played, I wouldn't say yeah they're a prog metal band; I'd say they play all sorts from heavy metal, prog-rock, prog-metal, neo-prog, hard rock, etc.
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Old 03-10-2006, 08:27 PM   #185 (permalink)
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This has become another one of Don's "DT is the best and because I listen to them I'm going to use them in my arguement to show how much more progressive my thinking is than everyone else, so I'm right."

And saying that emotional and emotional hardcore are basically the same is like saying acid jazz and elevator music are the same thing. Both draw from jazz influence, but it doesn't mean that elevator music has any real elements of jazz. All music is emotional; not all music has hardcore elements, and yes Don, hardcore does have a conceived definition, just like your precious prog-metal.
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Old 03-10-2006, 09:23 PM   #186 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don
ROFL. Notice how my reference was from a scholarly journal and yours was from a dodgy site that some guy made.
I don't want to get involved in this, but Fourfa (while still having some inaccurate information), is run by Andy Radin of Funeral Diner. You may have heard of them, their band plays a genre of music called.... Emu? Emi? Something like that. I think it involves screaming, as well. Screamoo, maybe?
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Old 03-10-2006, 09:38 PM   #187 (permalink)
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Question, Don do you have any opinion on emo outside of this one "scholar journal"? Cause all i've seen is you generating your entire opinion on a genre from one article. Which is kind of weak...

Here are some links you should try and disapprove and fix ya' know cause they're wrong and I just wanna see how they're totally wrong.

http://fourfa.com
http://www.musicbanter.com/showthread.php?t=7002
http://www.musicbanter.com/showthread.php?t=13388

Shouldn't be hard since this scholar journal is so well done for you to disprove these aye?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don
When did I ever say "The Used are an emo band?" This is not what I'm arguing here. Everyone's saying that The Used aren't emo at all. I'm saying what you just said, they drew influences and consequently emo shows in some of their tracks.
Hey, it would be kind of cool if you could actually list how it shows and in which tracks. Ya know like *insert song here* you can obviously here inlfluneces from *insert band here* in the screaming/guitaring/drumming etc.. Instead of just going "Oh well they do cause I say so and I don't need to bring up any facts to back this up." Back up your post with facts and maybe people will start to take you more seriously.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Don
It doesn't matter if emo first stood for electric mother onion, the only thing that matters is what historically happened with the style.
See now this post made me LOL. *compares taking back sunday to heroin* *compares saetia to heroin*. Well its pretty obvious which band has emo roots there. Taking Back Sunday of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don
I've already explained to you why your hideous logic is wrong. I said that initially emo was short for emotional, that's where the word ****ing came from.
Can you proves this? Emo could just as easiley mean emotive, emote, emollient and probaly more words I can't think of.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Don
Emo is a branch alternative/indie rock and some is very closely related to punk-pop with the use of whiny vocals, though it's a bit more intricate.
See now this post is completely inaccurate, you dismiss nearly every band that laid the foundations of emo regardless of which you consider emo. (See electric oceans post). You basically dismiss the entire screamo genre off. I fail to see how this "punk-pop" is closely related to emo. Then again with your logic, anberlin is emo and they sound the same as simple plan. Acutally have you heard untitled by simple plan? That song is emo according to your standards, even though it has 0 punk elements or hardcore elements. Also could you define indie-rock? I was pretty sure indie-rock was just rock group on an indepedent label which isn't a genre because it doesn't like the bands through actual sound. I've never known what "alternative rock is" i've always been told its alternative to mainstream rock, but I havn't bothered to ask around and look so I am not exactly going to stand by that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don
The lyrics of emo are mostly deeply personal, usually poetry or intimate confessionals.
I'm going to quote some of these "emo" lyrics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taking Back Sunday "Timberwolves At New Jersey
Get up, get up
Come on, come on, lets go
There’s just a few things
I think that you should know
Those words at best
were worse than teenage poetry
Fragment ideas
and too many pronouns
Stop it, come on
You’re not making sense now
You can't make them want you
They're all just laughing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anberlin "Day Late Friend"
so let me get this straight
all these years and you were no where to be found
and now you want me for your own
but you're a day late and my love, she's still renowned
we are who we were when
could've been lovers but at least you're still my day late friend
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atmosphere "52 Pick Up"
Come here little rabbit, I'm going to give you a treat, take a seat
I'd like to tell you a little story, about a boy; he couldn't make ends meet
Not only that but he couldn't make sense out of the daily walk
Or the way we talk
Or how much though can be put into the price of advertising
I was watching him when he stepped forward to speak
Under the impression that he was just another local freak
Never would have guessed that he was capable of taking out a cluster of droids!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dashboard Confessional "Swiss Army Romance"
We're not twenty-one,
but the sooner we are,
the sooner the fun will begin,
so get out your fake eyelashes,
and fake i.d's,
& real disasters ensue,
it's cool to take these chances.
It's cool to fake romances
& grow up fast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by My Chemical Romance "Bury Me In Black"
Just give us war, worn lipstick by the door if I inflame
These eyes have had too much to drink again tonight
Black skies, we'll douse ourselves in high explosive light
Just give us war, I've been calling you all week
for my shotgun

I could go on, but I am not going to. To be honest those lyrics don't fit the bill all that well. They seem kind of lame and not very poetic. Now poetic would be well example saetia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saetia "Postlapsaria"
I am the horizon.
I have dreamed of tracing rings around this world.
My arms are stretched to forever.
My fingers shake with the fear of control.
The fear I know you all know so well.
We all lay claim to our destinies.
Yet we all rise and fall with the current.
Thats is poetic and very emotional, I think it fits your definition way better, but I think thats stupid. Judging an entire genre on lyrics, why not have sexo? Or politicalo? Cause their is definetly enough lyrics on both going around, why can't they have their own genre? Infact, screw metal, classical etc.. Lets start grouping all the bands by lyrics instead. Because music isn't about sound, its about lyrics right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don
Who here has heard their latest album 'In Love and Death'?” The class shake their heads in unison.
This post is completely ignorant and fictional. I own the album, and you didn't even bother checking as to whether or not anyone else did. I have each used album. They're pop-punk with screaming, some tracks have slight hardcore elements but hardly enough to be considered emotionally driven hardcore.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowquill
"well hell since no one knows what emo is i'll just slap the title onto them sounds more attractive then pop-rock" and then it went from their into the current wave of mediocre pop groups that MTV and other such companies have labelled "emo". Similar to what they've labelled punk, good charlotte and simple plan?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don
That's what more or less happened and is exactly what I mean by evolved.
Here you also consider false labelling evolving.

Quote:
Wow, so I know nothing about emo when all you've done is agree with what I just said. There is no ****ing difference between saying emo is short for emotional and saying it's short for emotional hardcore.
See this makes me laugh, because you basically say hardcore isn't anything by saying theres no difference between saying emo is short for emotional and emo is short for emotionaly hardcore. Theres a huge difference.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Don
Moreover, it should be noted that Rites of Spring don't just play emo, they also play post-hardcore, alternative pop/rock and indie rock. And this is the same for most emo bands (or any band for that matter), they do not stick to just one style
Now i've heard rites of spring's first album. As stated before I don't really think indie-rock is a proper genre. Its about as accurate of a definition as this supposed "emotional music" its too vast to be considered a genre. I mean indie rock could mean Crass, Red Light Sting, and Mae. These bands have nothing in common, but are all on independent record labels and play some form of rock music therefore, indie rock. You need to elobrate on this post. Also you said, rites of spring we're the first emo band, but they only had a few emo tracks. Wouldn't that mean they just put out the first emo songs, and weren't technically the first emo band, but in the post you also said they were. That contradicts itself, and also judging by your definition rites of spring wasn't the first one to do emo, Barry Manilow came before him and by your standards he was emo and their is probaly there was probaly alot more people before him playing emo. Just going by your standards. You're whole arguement is sketchy and poorly done as best. The bands are hardly linked. The emo education thread history seems way more likely to be valid then this "professionally written music article". But hey, if you wanna make it in the music industry you're on the right path. Keep going with whatever sells and believe everything you see on MTV.


Oh I am also kind of stupid, seeing as you said that you've argued it before you can just copy and paste. Not too hard for a genius like you. Because all you really did was basically say "no you're wrong". Can you actually argue this statement this time? Assuming you can do that without your precious article, i'd like to see you stand on your own two feet in this arguement instead of just saying READ THE SCHOLAR JOURNAL.

The post I was refering to

Another thing, I think scholar journals are great for math, scienece etc... But they're kind of weak for music, art etc...Thats just my stance though. You're whole arguement once again has been lame, you've hardly been able to stand on you're own two feet and shock-shock people who know what they're talking about have been able to!


P.S. Don't be afraid to admit you're wrong on some points (or all) I doubt anyone will dog you constantly for it and treat you like crap. I'd personally think more of you for admitting to what you we're wrong then continuing to fight a lost battle.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by METALLICA89 View Post
Ive seen you on muiltipul forums saying Metallica and slayer are the worst **** you kid go suck your **** while you listen to your ****ing emo **** I bet you do listen to emo music
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Old 03-11-2006, 12:07 AM   #188 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Perfect_Sonnet
This has become another one of Don's "DT is the best and because I listen to them I'm going to use them in my arguement to show how much more progressive my thinking is than everyone else, so I'm right."

And saying that emotional and emotional hardcore are basically the same is like saying acid jazz and elevator music are the same thing. Both draw from jazz influence, but it doesn't mean that elevator music has any real elements of jazz. All music is emotional; not all music has hardcore elements, and yes Don, hardcore does have a conceived definition, just like your precious prog-metal.
I love DT but it has nothing to do with anything. In fact, I think Pagan's Mind and Angra share my number one spot.
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Old 03-11-2006, 12:46 AM   #189 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowquill
Question, Don do you have any opinion on emo outside of this one "scholar journal"? Cause all i've seen is you generating your entire opinion on a genre from one article. Which is kind of weak...

Here are some links you should try and disapprove and fix ya' know cause they're wrong and I just wanna see how they're totally wrong.

http://fourfa.com
http://www.musicbanter.com/showthread.php?t=7002
http://www.musicbanter.com/showthread.php?t=13388

Shouldn't be hard since this scholar journal is so well done for you to disprove these aye?
I think I've mentioned it at least three times that that article was just ONE reference I used.
Notice how your links are just random people's opinions, I've already pointed this out before too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowquill
Hey, it would be kind of cool if you could actually list how it shows and in which tracks. Ya know like *insert song here* you can obviously here inlfluneces from *insert band here* in the screaming/guitaring/drumming etc.. Instead of just going "Oh well they do cause I say so and I don't need to bring up any facts to back this up." Back up your post with facts and maybe people will start to take you more seriously.
But you see, I don't need to, I already explained that most of the tracks have traces of emo is them, but since you don't believe in my (the) definition of emo, then there's no point is there?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowquill
See now this post is completely inaccurate, you dismiss nearly every band that laid the foundations of emo regardless of which you consider emo.
Ermmm, no I didn't, I mentioned the three most important artists in defining emo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowquill
You basically dismiss the entire screamo genre off.
Because we're talking about emo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowquill
I fail to see how this "punk-pop" is closely related to emo.
Because you don't know what one side of emo is. If you just understood that, you'd finally realise you're wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowquill
Then again with your logic, anberlin is emo and they sound the same as simple plan.
Yep, I'd consider Anberlin to be part emo, and you need your ears checked if you think they sound like Simple Plan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowquill
Acutally have you heard untitled by simple plan? That song is emo according to your standards, even though it has 0 punk elements or hardcore elements.
There are no Simple Plan songs that are emo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowquill
Also could you define indie-rock? I was pretty sure indie-rock was just rock group on an indepedent label which isn't a genre because it doesn't like the bands through actual sound. I've never known what "alternative rock is" i've always been told its alternative to mainstream rock, but I havn't bothered to ask around and look so I am not exactly going to stand by that.
Sort of. Indie-rock is a style that incorporated rock with weird music techniques that makes it incompatible with the mainstream. Alternative rock used to be the same but because of Nirvana, it hit the mainstream.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowquill
I'm going to quote some of these "emo" lyrics.
Quote all you like, I never said the lyrics were the defining element. And I don't consider MCR to be emo, just post-hardcore.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowquill
This post is completely ignorant and fictional. I own the album, and you didn't even bother checking as to whether or not anyone else did. I have each used album. They're pop-punk with screaming, some tracks have slight hardcore elements but hardly enough to be considered emotionally driven hardcore.
Of course I didn't actually think no one had heard that album, I was just kidding and I didn't pull apart specific tracks because it would have made the post drawn-out. I'm glad you admit that some tracks have slight hardcore elements, you're almost there.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowquill
See this makes me laugh, because you basically say hardcore isn't anything by saying theres no difference between saying emo is short for emotional and emo is short for emotionaly hardcore. Theres a huge difference.
For the second time I was just saying that someone can say emotional music when he actually meant emotional hardcore. It's not the same as saying "This music is emotional," now that's a huge difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowquill
Now i've heard rites of spring's first album. As stated before I don't really think indie-rock is a proper genre.
Well it is a style, look it up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowquill
Its about as accurate of a definition as this supposed "emotional music" its too vast to be considered a genre.
You misunderstood me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowquill
Also you said, rites of spring we're the first emo band, but they only had a few emo tracks. Wouldn't that mean they just put out the first emo songs, and weren't technically the first emo band, but in the post you also said they were. That contradicts itself, and also judging by your definition rites of spring wasn't the first one to do emo, Barry Manilow came before him and by your standards he was emo and their is probaly there was probaly alot more people before him playing emo.
Now you're nitpicking on my wording. I should have said they were the first band to play emo music, happy? Barry Manilow? That better be a joke. You really don't understand my concept of emo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowquill
Just going by your standards. You're whole arguement is sketchy and poorly done as best.
Uh no, I've properly told you exactly what emo is, it's just that you don't agree with it so you think my argument is sketchy. Actually, I don't even consider this to be arguing, because I know what emo is and all I'm trying to do is tell you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowquill
But hey, if you wanna make it in the music industry you're on the right path. Keep going with whatever sells and believe everything you see on MTV.
I've hardly ever watched any music channel in my life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowquill
Assuming you can do that without your precious article, i'd like to see you stand on your own two feet in this arguement instead of just saying READ THE SCHOLAR JOURNAL.
I never once said that. Read back on my posts, I said that that was just one reference I've used. I feel like a broken record.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowquill
Another thing, I think scholar journals are great for math, scienece etc... But they're kind of weak for music, art etc...Thats just my stance though. You're whole arguement once again has been lame, you've hardly been able to stand on you're own two feet and shock-shock people who know what they're talking about have been able to!
But you see, the thing is, you're wrong, so naturally you think I don't know what I'm talking about. The difference is I don't resort to calling you a ****ing idiot and saying you don't know what you're talking about over and over.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowquill
P.S. Don't be afraid to admit you're wrong on some points (or all) I doubt anyone will dog you constantly for it and treat you like crap. I'd personally think more of you for admitting to what you we're wrong then continuing to fight a lost battle.
Believe me, I've been wrong and admitted it before on several occasions. It doesn't bother me at all, but what we're talking about here is pure fact. But okay let me pose this to you so we can finally agree on something. Let's agree that your definition of emo was right, but you have just failed to realise that the definition has changed over time, and it's extremely hard to pick up on exactly what is and isn't emo right now.
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Old 03-11-2006, 01:17 AM   #190 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don
The substitute professor walks into the loud classroom.

“Alright settle down kids, take your seats.” The kids refuse to budge. The professor now shouts: “NOW! And that means you bung! You too boo boo!” The kids sit down unhesitatingly.
“So now that I have you attention, let me write my last name on the board.” He writes in big letters “Don.”
“I'm your musical professional today, and I want to talk about what 'Emo Music' is and name a few examples of some bands that fit the criteria." The entire class groans.
“But we already know what it is,” says bung.
“So what is it then, smarty-pants?” the professor responds.
“Emo/Emocore is a derivative of the 80s Hardcore punk scene. Emo was used as a term to describe fans of bands that had more melodic, heartfelt lyrics than that of hardcore punk. In time, hardcore changed into what we call "post-hardcore", there is a difference between "post-hardcore" and emo/emocore, and there is a HUGE difference between that and "post-hardcore influenced pop punk."
“No, not really. You see kiddies, emo is more broad and in-depth than most think. Emo was initially used to describe hardcore bands – not fans - who favored expressive vocals over the typical rants of other bands. Emo is a branch alternative/indie rock and some is very closely related to punk-pop with the use of whiny vocals, though it's a bit more intricate. But also, Emo can actually be more progressive too, full of complex guitar work, unorthodox song structures, arty effects, and extreme dynamic shifts. At first, emo was obscure – along with the known emo trends - but in the mid 90's came Sunny Day Real Estate which consequently lead to the many emo bands of today. With SDRE came the dramatic melodies and soft vocals and this spawned Weezer's second album in 1996 which featured the more catchy pop side of emo and thus emo evolved into what it is today. Who can name another important aspect of identifying emo?”
“The lyrics?” asks boo boo.
“Yes, well done young man, gold sticker for you.” boo boo starts to continuously yelp like a dog who has just acquired his favourite bone.
The professor continues, “The lyrics of emo are mostly deeply personal, usually poetry or intimate confessionals.”
boo boo interrupts; “But Nirvana, among others, has those types of lyrics in some songs, doesn't that make them emo then?”
“Absolutely not, but good question. Just because a certain band may use very similar lyrical concepts to that of an emo-style, does not mean they play emo music. And this is because the lyrical aspect of emo music is merely an addon, if you will. To qualify to be emo, you first must employ the styles listed previously, and adding the lyrics then becomes a further attribute in identifying emo, but certainly not an exclusive element. The same goes with the use of whiny-vocals. Now, who thinks The Used are emo?” No one moves. “Why not?”
bung grins and says “Because I've heard one of their songs off MTV, and they're definitely just pop-punk.”
“Well yes, The Used do have some pop-punk tracks in their music, but this does not mean they don't qualify as emo. Who here has heard their latest album 'In Love and Death'?” The class shake their heads in unison. “Well, The Used's first album has some emo elements in it too, but 'In Love and Death' features emo very dominantly in most but not all of their tracks. The Used make use of quite complex layering and unconventional song-structures while encompassing emo's trade-mark lyrical styles. So what this means is that most of the tracks off the album are emo because although it is close to pop-punk, The used take that style and add to it with the previously mentioned techniques amongst others.”
“But Greenday are punk-pop, doesn't that make them emo?” asks lespaul.
“You weren't listening. Emo is close to punk-pop yes, but it is slightly more complex, like I said. So Greenday aren't emo.”
“I still don't understand, aren't Rites of Spring emo and the first true emo band? And The Used don't sound anything at all like them.” says Crow.
“Correct, Rites of Spring were the first emo band, but incorrect that The Used don't sound anything like them. As mentioned previously, The Used have many tracks off their latest album that sounds very similar to classic emo bands such as Rites of Spring. Moreover, it should be noted that Rites of Spring don't just play emo, they also play post-hardcore, alternative pop/rock and indie rock. And this is the same for most emo bands (or any band for that matter), they do not stick to just one style."
“Oh I see, so The Used do play pop-punk but they also play emo?” asks lespaul.
“Yes! Well done, triple gold sticker for you. So now, by the same token, I hope you can see that Coheed & Cambria are also an emo band, as well as being a progressive rock band. Remember, the second part of the definition of emo says that Emo can be more on the progressive side too.”
The bell rings. “Okay kids your homework is to listen to an entire Used album and tomorrow's lesson will be on queercore which is a related style to emo.”
Hey professior, can you tell us about the original movement, when and where it began, about the first emo bands and about their influences?

And can you do it without using Wikipedia?
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