Is Meat Really Murder?

Guybrush · 04-03-2010, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

What does it mean that life passes from gazelle to the lion? What does it mean that the gazelle save the life of the other gazelles?

It's not in the gazelles interest to save other gazelles, or at least not by it's martyrdom. It's death is a consequence of the lion's actions and perhaps it's weaknesses compared to other gazelles, but it may just have been in the wrong place at the wrong time. Survival of the fittest is not a term invented by Darwin, not even a biologist, so be careful you don't misinterpret it. Over evolutionary time, gazelles who are "less fit" - and fit is a relative term which varies with abiotic and biotic environment - reproduce less often or with less success than fit ones. The difference may not be big for it to have important repercussions a million years down the line. "Survival of the fittest" should be changed for something like "more successful reproduction of the fit, possibly across many generations". It just doesn't have the same kind of oompf to it.

The questions you pose can be answered with modern biology perfectly well. I rant about it all the time, but I think people have a tendency to skip my posts because they may write the same thing which caused me to write a response in the first place only days later.

**Scarlett O'Hara** · 04-03-2010, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

And you can eat white meat without killing the animal beforehand? lamb, chicken, rabbit, fish how do you think they end up a plate? Do you think that they have some sort of fish cult where all the fish sacrifice themselves to us? Do rabbits and chickens kill themselves?

If red meat is murder, so is white. (btw I still say neither is 'murder')

I never meant only red meat. Get some glasses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucifer_sam

It's not like animals in the wild go around dying of old age, either.

They get eaten too.

Yeah but people aren't going to wait around until animals die of old age are they?

anticipation · 04-03-2010, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dancing_Princess18

When I turned 18 I made the choice to become a vegatarian. My whole entire family laughed at me saying it was "stupid" and I wouldn't last a week. Well I have been going strong. I have written so many papers for school on why you should be a vegatarian that it's not even funny. Then they ask me "why" are you anti-huntiest and a vegatarian? Here is my answer:

I don't want to be the morgue of a dead animal. It is unhealthy to your body especally the 'red meats' and Dr. Oz reccomened to cut out meats from your diet. I've always been chubby and after cutting out meats, I have lost over 20 pounds and I am now thin. That and it isn't fair for animals to be slaughterd for food when it is sick to do that to a person. In my eyes animals are greater than people or atleast on the same level. I've gained more respect for animals then people because animals love you rich/poor, g ay/straight, black/white, brand-name clothing/cheap used clothes or wrong or right they don't care. They don't start rumors or back talk you. Most animals keep away from you and leave you alone unless they feel threatened. Hunters say animals need to be shot to reduce spred of dieases and over-population. Well please argue that to me whenever you fix the extremely over-populated world and people spreading dieases like Swine and common colds and illnesses. Shoot an animal for tresspassing, when people tresspass and rob...so shoot the people because its okay for animals? People argue back that you cannot compare animals to humans...they are right, animals are much smarter! If you are athiest then ignore this part but for believers in God, theres a huge section in there that states that animals are valued more. Who did God want saved during the Arch? 2 of each animal, and left the humans to be punished. I feel that animals are so innocient and humans just keep destroying this planet with their waste and hazard materials.

That is basically the speech I give my family each year they try getting me to eat meat and laugh at me. I believe in what I believe in and they believe how they do. There is no right for anyone to make fun of anyone for how they believe. I hand it though to Vegans, I couldn't handle not eating cheese or dairy products. This is hard enough

this is basically what erica, aka the sane non-confrontational vegetarian, is the opposite of. she provides real facts, scientific evidence, and intelligent debate in order to prove her point, while people like this yammer about nonsense to satisfy their need for attention/being different.

in short;
erica = the vegetarian we wish all vegetarians were.
dancing princess = the vegetarian we all know and loathe.

stormjh · 04-03-2010, 07:54 PM

Out of interest, where do vegans stand on swallowing semen?

lucifer_sam · 04-03-2010, 08:02 PM

lol

stormjh · 04-03-2010, 08:05 PM

Agony and ecstasy: sex advice - Times Online

Well I found a times article, but I'd like to hear where vegangellica stands on it, if it's not too much of a personal question.

Cheese · 04-03-2010, 09:20 PM

I worked in an abbatoir for 3 years after I left school and suffice to say it didn't have any effect on me eating meat.............i particularly enjoyed the 14 months i had on the killing floor

stormjh · 04-04-2010, 03:00 PM

Breastfeeding as well, do vegans do that?

Akira · 04-04-2010, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormjh

Out of interest, where do vegans stand on swallowing semen?

They kneel

Guybrush · 04-04-2010, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormjh

Breastfeeding as well, do vegans do that?

And where, would you say, is the moral dilemma with breastfeeding?

Don't expect to be taken seriously in the discussion if moronic arguments like this is all you can produce.

04-03-2010, 07:54 PM	#254 (permalink)
stormjh Music Addict Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 161	Out of interest, where do vegans stand on swallowing semen? __________________ Sig removed by mod.

04-03-2010, 08:02 PM	#255 (permalink)
lucifer_sam Unrepentant Ass-Mod Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 3,921	lol __________________ first.am

04-03-2010, 08:05 PM	#256 (permalink)
stormjh Music Addict Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 161	Agony and ecstasy: sex advice - Times Online Well I found a times article, but I'd like to hear where vegangellica stands on it, if it's not too much of a personal question. __________________ Sig removed by mod.

04-04-2010, 03:00 PM	#258 (permalink)
stormjh Music Addict Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 161	Breastfeeding as well, do vegans do that? __________________ Sig removed by mod.

04-03-2010, 09:20 PM	#257 (permalink)
Cheese Shadow on the wall Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: New Zealand Posts: 823	I worked in an abbatoir for 3 years after I left school and suffice to say it didn't have any effect on me eating meat.............i particularly enjoyed the 14 months i had on the killing floor