The Profession-al Argument

**Janszoon** · 04-17-2010, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duga

I completely disagree with this. The notion that you have to pursue a career in the same field of study as your degree is absurd, but not the notion that you need one. You definitely need one, unless you hope to work a pay by the hour job the rest of your life. The only way I see around it is if you have massive networking skills, or you just have a friend that gets you a job (even then they will tell you to get a degree most of the time). A degree these days is little more than showing you are willing to work hard enough to get one, but it is still basically an essential.

Exactly. Unless you have a trade or happen to be a genius entrepreneur, getting a bachelors in literally anything is better than having no degree at all. With a BA you can always get office-type jobs. Over the years I've worked with tons of editors, account managers, sales people, etc. who had degrees in everything from comparative religion to animation to, yes, English. And I think the great thing about an English degree in particular is it actually gives you a bit of an edge in the business world, where good writing skills are frequently very important.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucifer_sam

But yes, job possibilities can be somewhat limited for English majors.

That's true of engineering majors as well, sorry to say.

lucifer_sam · 04-17-2010, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

That's true of engineering majors as well, sorry to say.

How so?

I'm not saying I'm necessarily disagreeing with you but I think we may be at odds as to what each other means by it.

**Janszoon** · 04-17-2010, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucifer_sam

How so?

I'm not saying I'm necessarily disagreeing with you but I think we may be at odds as to what each other means by it.

I'm saying, as far as I can tell based on being married to an engineer, it's an industry where if you want to switch companies, you're more than likely going to have to relocate because there don't seem to be a lot of different organizations in any given place who hire engineers. Contrast this with having an English degree. No offense to your cousin or whoever it was but most people with English degrees who have their act together wind up becoming things like editors, copywriters, proposal writers, etc. While it's true that they'll probably make less than engineers, there are generally more local jobs available to them, so they don't have pack up and move to another state if they switch employers.

Minor Monster · 04-17-2010, 12:40 PM

Im 26 and I only have an AA degree which means next to ****. I went to a 4 year college for a semester and a half and dropped out, now I owe an insane amount of money from loans. I would suggest to anyone that is in school, to stay, why the hell not? I want to go back but I probably wont. Ill chase this dream that I have barely contributed to in months, a dream that has a 99% failure probability, probably 99.9% when you factor in my procrastination skills... Im probably going nowhere. If I had a degree I wouldnt be working in the hell that I do with no chance of promotion of any kind.

Im also getting kicked out of the place I live and dont know what im gonna do

ok done bitching

lucifer_sam · 04-17-2010, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I'm saying, as far as I can tell based on being married to an engineer, it's an industry where if you want to switch companies, you're more than likely going to have to relocate because there don't seem to be a lot of different organizations in any given place who hire engineers. Contrast this with having an English degree. No offense to your cousin or whoever it was but most people with English degrees who have their act together wind up becoming things like editors, copywriters, proposal writers, etc. While it's true that they'll probably make less than engineers, there are generally more local jobs available to them, so they don't have pack up and move to another state if they switch employers.

I was on tenterhooks about posting this before because it might sound like I'm trying to brag (which I'm not) but it sounds like you have a VERY wrong idea of what and where technical majors are in demand. Across a company? Yeah, you'll have to relocate, but if you're just looking for a job you won't need to look very far.

Here's a few of the engineering jobs I'm actually qualified for right now. If you notice the industries which they represent you'll see they range from communications, electronics, waste management, transportation, civil contractors, government work, etc etc etc. Not only that they're (mostly) within a few hundred miles' radius making it easy to relocate to find a job. (One is within walking distance of my apartment!) Most of these aren't small companies either, the ones which actively recruit through sites like this are generally the bigger firms.

Personally this summer I'll be working for an engineering firm that's five miles from my house. And within that area there's at least four or five more well-paying jobs within my field at my disposal. The only thing that sucks is the manufacturing industry's gone down the shitter in the past few years, making it difficult to find places looking for new hires.

I'd love to see what this would look like if I was a liberal arts major. A much shorter list, I expect.

Urban Hat€monger ? · 04-17-2010, 01:14 PM

I think it's a shame that so many people seem to think that it's either collage/university or a life spent in pointless shitty jobs.

There are plenty of other ways to further your education and if you think that all there is to it then it's you that's missing out.

That's the route I took. never been in debt , always been earning money and basically was getting paid to learn. I earn just as much money now as most people I know who went to collage/university the only difference is I didn't have a massive debt to pay off for the privilege.
Was it that I was lucky?
No I just put the effort it.

**Janszoon** · 04-17-2010, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucifer_sam

I was on tenterhooks about posting this before because it might sound like I'm trying to brag (which I'm not) but it sounds like you have a VERY wrong idea of what and where technical majors are in demand. Across a company? Yeah, you'll have to relocate, but if you're just looking for a job you won't need to look very far.

I'm not talking about within a company, I'm talking about switching companies. My wife and father-in-law are both electrical engineers so maybe that's a totally different scenario than a mechanical engineer, I don't know. What I do know is that for them, and assorted other electrical engineers my wife is acquainted with, switching companies most likely will mean you have to move.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucifer_sam

Here's a few of the engineering jobs I'm actually qualified for right now. If you notice the industries which they represent you'll see they range from communications, electronics, waste management, transportation, civil contractors, government work, etc etc etc. Not only that they're (mostly) within a few hundred miles' radius making it easy to relocate to find a job. (One is within walking distance of my apartment!) Most of these aren't small companies either, the ones which actively recruit through sites like this are generally the bigger firms.

Personally this summer I'll be working for an engineering firm that's five miles from my house. And within that area there's at least four or five more well-paying jobs within my field at my disposal. The only thing that sucks is the manufacturing industry's gone down the shitter in the past few years, making it difficult to find places looking for new hires.

I'd love to see what this would look like if I was a liberal arts major. A much shorter list, I expect.

I doubt it would be a shorter list at all, in fact I'd say it would probably be substantially longer. You've actually kind of proven my initial point here by providing list of "nearby" jobs that by-and-large would mean you would have to relocate. A person with a liberal arts degree, being much less of a niche employee, would most likely be able to find work without having to move at all.

I'm happy for you that you have what sounds like a great summer internship, but I'd definitely be very curious to hear how you feel about this topic after a decade or so actually working in the industry.

lucifer_sam · 04-17-2010, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I'm not talking about within a company, I'm talking about switching companies. My wife and father-in-law are both electrical engineers so maybe that's a totally different scenario than a mechanical engineer, I don't know. What I do know is that for them, and assorted other electrical engineers my wife is acquainted with, switching companies most likely will mean you have to move.

I doubt it would be a shorter list at all, in fact I'd say it would probably be substantially longer. You've actually kind of proven my initial point here by providing list of "nearby" jobs that by-and-large would mean you would have to relocate. A person with a liberal arts degree, being much less of a niche employee, would most likely be able to find work without having to move at all.

I'm happy for you that you have what sounds like a great summer internship, but I'd definitely be very curious to hear how you feel about this topic after a decade or so actually working in the industry,

So let me get this straight: you're still under the impression that liberal arts majors have more opportunities available to them? Feel free to argue this however you like, can't say I'll ever see where you're coming from. At this point it doesn't really matter what I use to support my argument, it's obvious you have a certain p.o.v. entrenched in your personal convictions.

Although I'd like to ask, what makes you think a liberal arts major is any more qualified than anyone else as far as a non-technical profession goes? Remember, "writing skills" aren't major-specific, everybody's expected to have those.

**Janszoon** · 04-17-2010, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucifer_sam

So let me get this straight: you're still under the impression that liberal arts majors have more opportunities available to them? Feel free to argue this however you like, can't say I'll ever see where you're coming from. At this point it doesn't really matter what I use to support my argument, it's obvious you have a certain p.o.v. entrenched in your personal convictions.

Well, you've actually shifted the goal posts here a bit. We started off talking about English majors but then you switched to talking about liberal arts majors in general. Which would you like to talk about?

And before you jump any conclusions about what my personal convictions are, keep in mind that I too have very much of a niche degree and career path.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucifer_sam

Although I'd like to ask, what makes you think a liberal arts major is any more qualified than anyone else as far as a non-technical profession goes? Remember, "writing skills" aren't major-specific, everybody's expected to have those.

Who exactly do you want to compare them to? People without a degree? People with a mechanical engineering degree?

Your comment about writing skills is actually pretty funny. Employers may expect people to have them but you'd be surprised by how few people actually do. And just like you no doubt have engineering skills far beyond the typical English major, the typical English major has writing skills far beyond yours.

lucifer_sam · 04-17-2010, 02:36 PM

I like this discussion but it's so far off-topic that it's almost absurd.

New thread okay?

04-17-2010, 12:40 PM	#24 (permalink)
Minor Monster Groupie Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2	Im 26 and I only have an AA degree which means next to ****. I went to a 4 year college for a semester and a half and dropped out, now I owe an insane amount of money from loans. I would suggest to anyone that is in school, to stay, why the hell not? I want to go back but I probably wont. Ill chase this dream that I have barely contributed to in months, a dream that has a 99% failure probability, probably 99.9% when you factor in my procrastination skills... Im probably going nowhere. If I had a degree I wouldnt be working in the hell that I do with no chance of promotion of any kind. Im also getting kicked out of the place I live and dont know what im gonna do ok done bitching __________________ The music hall a costly bow The music all is lost for now To a muted trumpeter swan Columnated ruins domino

04-17-2010, 01:14 PM	#26 (permalink)
Urban Hat€monger ? The Sexual Intellectual Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Somewhere cooler than you Posts: 18,605	I think it's a shame that so many people seem to think that it's either collage/university or a life spent in pointless shitty jobs. There are plenty of other ways to further your education and if you think that all there is to it then it's you that's missing out. That's the route I took. never been in debt , always been earning money and basically was getting paid to learn. I earn just as much money now as most people I know who went to collage/university the only difference is I didn't have a massive debt to pay off for the privilege. Was it that I was lucky? No I just put the effort it. __________________ Urb's RYM Stuff Most people sell their soul to the devil, but the devil sells his soul to Nick Cave.

04-17-2010, 02:36 PM	#30 (permalink)
lucifer_sam Unrepentant Ass-Mod Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 3,921	I like this discussion but it's so far off-topic that it's almost absurd. New thread okay? __________________ first.am