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Frownland 10-11-2021 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb (Post 2187828)
oh i see.. apparently you missed my point which is that the trans joke in question was pretty much exactly that. A funny voice and face impression of a Chinese guy. That was the literal punchline of the joke bud.

You should've said that instead of trying to frame Chapelle as a transgressive genius when the sticks and stones special came out then lol.

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what is it you would like me to own?
Yourself.

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lol get real all you said is it's lazy and you heard it before etc. Very generic and dismissive appraisal tbh.. not at all insightful or convincing.
Generic like gravity.

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Where as i said i found the Chinese face funny... Sorry i don't have a "reason" it's just funny.
You don't need one and I doubt you'd want to find it. If you're gonna enter the convo though, avoiding self-reflection in response to counterargument just means that you want to jack off in front of everyone.

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I'm not trying to mitigate it.
Intension is irrelevant.

jwb 10-11-2021 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 2187829)
You should've said that instead of trying to frame Chapelle as a transgressive genius when the sticks and stones special came out then lol.

um like i said i hyped him up more than i should but yeah i still like the special, the trans joke wasnt the best part of the special, but if you ask why i laughed at that joke it was the face and I'm pretty sure i did say that to you when this argument first came up way back when...

Again, we are only talking about one joke in an hour long special.


Quote:

You don't need one and I doubt you'd want to find it. If you're gonna enter the convo though, avoiding self-reflection in response to counterargument just means that you want to jack off in front of everyone.
I'm not avoiding self reflection you just don't like my answers. You haven't given me **** to work with either, doc.



Quote:

Intension is irrelevant.
ok.....? Lol

Frownland 10-11-2021 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb (Post 2187830)
um like i said i hyped him up more than i should but yeah i still like the special, the trans joke wasnt the best part of the special, but if you ask why i laughed at that joke it was the face and I'm pretty sure i did say that to you when this argument first came up way back when...

You did hit that point while backpedaling to be fair.

Quote:

I'm not avoiding self reflection you just don't like my answers. You haven't given me **** to work with either, doc.
"Sorry i don't have a 'reason' it's just funny."
-Joseph Wallace Banks

jwb 10-11-2021 01:29 AM

...to be fair in other words you went back to read and see i was right as usual.

Backpedaling what exactly? Tell me what you think i think is funny about the joke. Tell me what dave is even saying with the joke that i "agree" with.

You doing all this interrogating go ahead and tell me the right answer and we can discuss that instead

Frownland 10-11-2021 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb (Post 2187833)
...to be fair in other words you went back to read and see i was right as usual.

Nah I mean you made the initial point that the joke itself was actually brilliant and everyone who didn't think so was just a sensitive bitch before distancing yourself from the transphobic roots that were pointed out to you pushing you directly into the "I just think he sounds funny!" stage. Backpedaling is a negative term.

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Tell me what you think i think is funny about the joke. Tell me what dave is even saying with the joke that i "agree" with.
You already did. He got a funny voice and the joke doesn't even matter. Wait till you see him jingle his keys!

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You doing all this interrogating go ahead and tell me the right answer and we can discuss that instead
To avoid the fact that you're building a farcical separation between your ideas and the things you like that are heavily rooted in similar ideas? Can't we play a different game?

jwb 10-11-2021 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 2187835)
Nah I mean you made the initial point that the joke itself was actually brilliant and everyone who didn't think so was just a sensitive bitch before distancing yourself from the transphobic roots that were pointed out to you pushing you directly into the "I just think he sounds funny!" stage. Backpedaling is a negative term.

no i didn't lol quote me


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You already did. He got a funny voice and the joke doesn't even matter. Wait till you see him jingle his keys!
avoiding the question pal? You think there's some deeper reason i find it funny why won't you enlighten me



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To avoid the fact that you're building a farcical separation between your ideas and the things you like that are heavily rooted in similar ideas? Can't we play a different game?
this is what I'm asking you .. which ideas?

You won't answer that for some reason. If you won't then how can i possibly comment on the connection between my taste in comedy and whatever ideas it is you're referencing.

And don't just go "reactionary blah blah blah" give me a specific idea not vague buzzwords

Frownland 10-11-2021 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb (Post 2187836)
no i didn't lol quote me

You said this before you mentioned the delivery

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb (Post 2075879)
I think you resent the angle he's taking cause it goes against your ideology but there were tons of good lines in there.

And funny how he said nothing provocative yet they're was a backlash. You're living in the twilight zone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb (Post 2075894)
No his act is extremely important right now. Because people want to destroy that brand of humor. You're not supposed to punch down. That's why Dave was so in your face about it this time cause last time he got some flack for very mild tranny jokes. So this was a guy with f*ck-you money saying let me joke about whatever I want to joke about.

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avoiding the question pal? You think there's some deeper reason i find it funny why won't you enlighten me

this is what I'm asking you .. which ideas?
It appeals to the normative transphobia that you're accustomed to.

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You won't answer that for some reason. If you won't then how can i possibly comment on the connection between my taste in comedy and whatever ideas it is you're referencing.
But you won't keep that from stopping you lol

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And don't just go "reactionary blah blah blah" give me a specific idea not vague buzzwords
Eh, I'll just use what I think communicates my ideas instead. If you have hangups caused by popular media usage of a word then just clarify that and I'll let you know if that's how I meant it or not.

jwb 10-11-2021 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 2187837)
You said this before you mentioned the delivery

.... You actually think that quote matches what you described me saying about the trans joke being brilliant and everyone who didn't get it are just sensitive bitches?

edit : ah, you added a second quote that also doesn't say anything close to what you described, lol






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It appeals to the normative transphobia that you're accustomed to.
vague. Possibly true but vague and also... Not why it's funny lol. It could just be i accept the joke because I'm accustomed to transphobia where as you reject it specifically because you find it transphobic.. i am not bothered by the joke being somewhat transphobic but that doesn't mean it's funny simply cause it's transphobic


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But you won't keep that from stopping you lol
what?



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Eh, I'll just use what I think communicates my ideas instead. If you have hangups caused by popular media usage of a word then just clarify that and I'll let you know if that's how I meant it or not.
i was asking you to be clear in which ideas you are ascribing to me. Since half the time you respond to **** you read into my posts that's not even there imo.

Frownland 10-11-2021 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb (Post 2187838)
.... You actually think that quote matches what you described me saying about the trans joke being brilliant and everyone who didn't get it are just sensitive bitches?

Yes.

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vague. Possibly true but vague and also... Not why it's funny lol. It could just be i accept the joke because I'm accustomed to transphobia
So like, exactly what I said lmao

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i am not bothered by the joke being somewhat transphobic but that doesn't mean it's funny simply cause it's transphobic
Right. The appeal of transphobia is a driving aspect alongside the funny voice. Two things true at the same time, wild innit.

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i was asking you to be clear in which ideas you are ascribing to me. Since half the time you respond to **** you read into my posts that's not even there imo.
You're just gonna scoff at the prospect of being psychoanalyzed after requesting it, but:

You hastily defend transphobia as not worth criticizing because you're close enough to that mindset that you might receive some of that criticism yourself. You recognize on some level that transphobia is becoming passe. Then you lead everyone through all this semantic bull**** where you deflect away from your original point propelling transphobia to something more innocuous while framing your inability to understand a point as evidence against it in order to make the idea you're rejecting seem nonsensical.

jwb 10-11-2021 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 2187839)
Yes.

i didn't even reference the joke in question in either of the two posts you quoted. You are really reaching.



Quote:

So like, exactly what I said lmao



Right. The appeal of transphobia is a driving aspect alongside the funny voice. Two things true at the same time, wild innit.
you seem to have problems reading... I said he made a funny face not voice and i didn't say the transphobia was part of the appeal of the joke either.

I just am not bothered by it like you are. I take it as relatively light hearted and benign.

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You're just gonna scoff at the prospect of being psychoanalyzed after requesting it, but:

You hastily defend transphobia as not worth criticizing because you're close enough to that mindset that you might receive some of that criticism yourself. You recognize on some level that transphobia is becoming passe.
uh yeah there's truth to that but it's more like i think it's become so trendy to make noise on these topics online that people overreact to pretty benign offenses.

But that's not WHY i found the joke funny... It might be why i have a knee jerk impulse to argue with people online about it though

Quote:

Then you lead everyone through all this semantic bull**** where you deflect away from your original point propelling transphobia to something more innocuous while framing your inability to understand a point as evidence against it in order to make the idea you're rejecting seem nonsensical.
wut?

Frownland 10-11-2021 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb (Post 2187842)
Transphobia is relatively light hearted and benign.

.

jwb 10-11-2021 03:49 AM

Damn... You really got me bruv

Frownland 10-11-2021 03:50 AM

Looks like reiterating the point for the millionth time finally worked.

bob_32_116 10-11-2021 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 2187847)
Looks like reiterating the point for the millionth time finally worked.

So we can move on then?

Frownland 10-11-2021 03:59 AM

It makes no difference what musicbanterers think of bickering. Bickering endures. As well ask musicbanterers what they think of the Stones. Bickering was always here. Before musicbanter was, bickering waited for it.

jwb 10-11-2021 03:59 AM

Do you think there's any such thing as being transphobic, racist, sexist etc in a light hearted way?

Frownland 10-11-2021 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb (Post 2187851)
Do you think there's any such thing as being transphobic, racist, sexist etc in a light hearted way?

Not in a way that separates it from the damaging impact of oppression. Approaching it "causally" reflects a wider, directly violent trend.

jwb 10-11-2021 04:06 AM

So then with jokes.. by definition there's no such thing as a funny racist/sexist/transphobic joke?

Tristan_Geoff 10-11-2021 05:33 AM

no

The Batlord 10-11-2021 06:14 AM

****ing comedy bros are just straight dude groupies.

jwb 10-11-2021 03:18 PM

And the other side are just typical haters.. trying to ruin other people's fun as a hobby...

SGR 10-11-2021 03:21 PM

But...what do musicbanterers think of the Stones?

The Batlord 10-11-2021 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb (Post 2187923)
And the other side are just typical haters.. trying to ruin other people's fun as a hobby...

Yup. We cancelled Dave Chappelle and now he can't even get an open mic spot.

jwb 10-11-2021 04:10 PM

Didn't say that you did....

The Batlord 10-11-2021 04:45 PM

Poor Dave, cancelled by a Pitchfork-wielding Twitter mob and now he's hiding in a dirty alley trying to find two nickels to rub together just to keep warm.

jwb 10-11-2021 05:00 PM

I just said you were haters.. nice strawman though I'm sure it's very fulfilling to defeat arguments that you invent for me lol

LEGALISE DRUGS AND MURDER 10-11-2021 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoundgardenRocks (Post 2187926)
But...what do musicbanterers think of the Stones?

Good rock band

The Batlord 10-11-2021 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb (Post 2187956)
I just said you were haters.. nice strawman though I'm sure it's very fulfilling to defeat arguments that you invent for me lol

More like I'm taking a detour to mock you in general.

jwb 10-11-2021 06:19 PM

More like your mom's pussy smells

The Batlord 10-11-2021 06:25 PM

It smells delicious actually.

jwb 10-11-2021 06:27 PM

Thought you didn't care for salt and vinegar

The Batlord 10-11-2021 07:55 PM

Like fried catfish.

adidasss 10-15-2021 11:14 PM

Australian Comedian Hannah Gadsby Slams Ted Sarandos After Being Referenced in Dave Chappelle Memo

Hannah Gadsby kills it. <3

jwb 10-15-2021 11:56 PM

Anyone actually find her funny at all?

Guybrush 10-16-2021 12:56 AM

I haven't seen Chapelle's special and don't know what he says, but I do find many aspects of cancel culture to be dumb. Do we have to agree on everything in order to accept and tolerate that someone else has a place in society / entertainment / whatever?

Taken to extremes, in the US, you could have comedians for democrats and other comedians for republicans. You could read different books, watch different channels, consume different news sources and entirely different narratives about the world. It removes common ground, segregates people and ups conflict.

It undermines democracy which was built on the idea that we should voice opinions, debate them and place our votes. Differing opinions should come into contact inside our brains and the best ones win. A good thing about that is it makes it possible for people to change their mind. Cancel culture is more like cultural war and you stick to your side/echo chambers where bad opinions can fester unchallenged. If you think your opinions are right, you ironically lose the ability to influence your opponents. You know more about alt right and q-anon than I do, I'm sure. Cancel culture is a small part of the environment that allows stuff like that to blossom.

Increased cancel culture is also one of the consequences of people getting radicalised by social media echo chambers and algorithms feeding us content.

Sometimes cancellation is appropriate, but I don't think the line should be drawn at legal expression of opinions you don't agree with. Cancel Varg Vikernes, R. Kelly, Harvey Weinstein - you know, people who would rape or murder.

jwb 10-16-2021 01:02 AM

Point is even if Chappelle is a shell of his former self, even in this state he's still funnier than Hannah Gadsby.

jwb 10-16-2021 01:03 AM

And prolly funnier than most women comics if we are being real about it ...

The Batlord 10-16-2021 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guybrush (Post 2188606)
I haven't seen Chapelle's special and don't know what he says, but I do find many aspects of cancel culture to be dumb. Do we have to agree on everything in order to accept and tolerate that someone else has a place in society / entertainment / whatever?

Taken to extremes, in the US, you could have comedians for democrats and other comedians for republicans. You could read different books, watch different channels, consume different news sources and entirely different narratives about the world. It removes common ground, segregates people and ups conflict.

It undermines democracy which was built on the idea that we should voice opinions, debate them and place our votes. Differing opinions should come into contact inside our brains and the best ones win. A good thing about that is it makes it possible for people to change their mind. Cancel culture is more like cultural war and you stick to your side/echo chambers where bad opinions can fester unchallenged. If you think your opinions are right, you ironically lose the ability to influence your opponents. You know more about alt right and q-anon than I do, I'm sure. Cancel culture is a small part of the environment that allows stuff like that to blossom.

Increased cancel culture is also one of the consequences of people getting radicalised by social media echo chambers and algorithms feeding us content.

Sometimes cancellation is appropriate, but I don't think the line should be drawn at legal expression of opinions you don't agree with. Cancel Varg Vikernes, R. Kelly, Harvey Weinstein - you know, people who would rape or murder.

Alright this is vapid as ****.

1. What do you think cancel culture is? Cause it sounds like your main interaction with it is the news.

2. The market of ideas is a nice, grandiose concept but it doesn't reflect reality and never did. Most people never change their ideas about anything and when they do it's not because of a free exchange of ideas by men with powdered wigs. Progress and change mostly comes through violence. Democracy is just how more people enforce their will on fewer people.

Guybrush 10-16-2021 03:09 AM

I figure it's you who probably lack perspective, Bats. I think it's pretty much limited to a narrow slice of the going-ons in the US.

The Batlord 10-16-2021 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guybrush (Post 2188611)
I figure it's you who probably lack perspective, Bats. I think it's pretty much limited to a narrow slice of the going-ons in the US.

If the European perspective is that the cream rises to the top if we all just talk it out like adults then no wonder you people can't keep Nazis out of your parliaments. The social media echo chambers certainly suck but they are a symptom of polarization, not a root cause and blaming radicalization on itself is a typical liberal viewpoint that ignores material analysis.

If there weren't material conditions that were leading people to look for answers why their life and the world sucks so much then Twitter, Youtube, Fox News, talk radio, etc wouldn't have an audience to wind up. But with every financial crisis the elite class consolidate more and more capital and the market share for everyone else shrinks and shrinks and people get more and more desperate for any analytical lens that makes sense to them.

Worrying about cancel culture and echo chambers as villains isolated from any deeper, more holistic analysis is just simping for the status quo, and blathering on about the free exchange of ideas is ignoring how and why these radical ideas develop in the first place. They develop because people's needs aren't being met and they are angry and emotional, and they often come to their conclusions via anger and emotion with help from somebody who knows how to direct their anger and emotions. It's a marketplace of ideas in the same sense as any marketplace functions on cold reason and logic (hint: they don't).


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