Consolator

Wow..

Well, you're right that she was a pretty normal girl at the time of being on Def Jam. Let's face it though, normal doesn't cut it in mainstream pop music. At least not usually. She wanted to make a career out of pop music so she weirded it up a bit -- why does that make her such a terrible, hate-worthy artist? Remnants of her lounge music are very clear in some of her songs. Have you heard her songs "You & I" and "Living on the Radio" ? Both are lounge tracks from her next album. She knew to get her foot in the door and to catch attention, she would have to do what most (if not all) pop music artists do these days. Stir controversy, be attractive (?), appear to be promiscuous, sing about partying, alcohol, drugs, and sex, etc.

The way I look at it, she's slowly distancing herself from that image and is beginning to rely more her previous means of making music. I don't think she'll ever abandon that image completely, but I definitely see a change in her. I also take it that you haven't gave her albums a listen -- there are tracks on them that are by no means "normal" pop songs. Teeth in particular comes to mind.

When it gets down to it, if being "fake" (and I use that term lightly) like Lady Gaga is means I'm going to sell millions and millions of albums, have sold-out show after sold-out show, have over 22 million "likes" on Facebook, and become a cultural phenomenon across the planet, then ****, I'm going to be fake. People that point fingers screaming "OMG SELLOUT, UNORIGINAL, FAKE" make me think that they're either jealous in some way, or just anti-everything mainstream.

Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra

It never ends!!!

CHCl3

You are assuming I'm against gimmicks when I'm not. I'm just against people using gimmicks because their music alone won't cut it. I would like musicians to have success through their musical prowess rather than trying to play this imaginary character.

Also can fans of popular artists stop throwing the "OMG YOUZ $O JEALUZZZ!!!!" argument whenever someone points something out. I usually preceive it as a cheap dodge based on projection. I'm also not anti-mainstream. There are some mainstream artists I listen to from time to time.

adidasss

I dismissed her previous album because I didn't and still don't like Pokerface, but I think Bad romance, Alejandro and especially Telephone are great songs and huge earworms. What she's done with the videos and the accompanying visual image took it to a whole different level and made her, quite deservedly, a pop icon and a phenomenon of mainstream music (seriously, who nowadays makes 10 minute videos?). 3 songs don't make a great album though...

Still, this:

is just spectacular. But then it was tailor made for gay people...

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I hate to say it, but I think I agree with you. Mostly gay guys though. ;PP
I hated Alejandro. I haven't seen it more than the day of the premiere and maybe it would have grown on me after than but I didn't think it was a good video at all.

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Consolator

Generally, calling someone fake means you don't approve of their image. If that's not what you meant, then you should be more clear in what you're arguing. I agree, in a perfect world, artists would not have to rely on image / gimmicks so much, but as I've told others in this thread, that's just how music is right now.

Also, I have no problem with you pointing out faults about Gaga. I have many problems with her. A few of them include..

1. Her work overall is unoriginal, and and is regurgitations of what previous pop icons have done. I don't know how many people I've seen claim she's the most original thing on the planet since existence. She has a lot of potential, definitely. Her ability to write hooks is phenomenal.

2. Her fashion is definitely too much at times

3. For someone who has tons of young fans, going around openly admitting she does all sorts of drugs isn't particularly considerate. The fact that it took her months to say "Oh wait.. I don't want my fans to emulate any of my behavior!" makes me question her intentions.

You claiming she's fake and relying on gimmicks are imo, mediocre reasons to criticize her.

Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra

/thread

CHCl3

If you had actually bothered to read my post before replying you would have seen that while I don't necessarily hate gimmicks, I don't approve of Lady Gaga's. If a gimmick is reflective of the music like Marlyn Manson's or a Black Metal band then its fine as I said in the post you first quoted.

I agree with you but I wanted needed to point out the inconsistency.

Wow...

This has been around in mainstream music for as long as I can remember. For someone that looks down on my argument cause it complains about something that is so common place in the music industry you would think that this one falls under the same category. Of course she is going to cover her ass so the parental groups get give them some breathing room. This is probably the most "mediocre" argument that I've heard against any artist ever.

Consolator

I did read your post. I don't really listen to Black metal, so you're going to have to explain what you mean by "so long as the gimmick reflects the music" if you want to keep using that argument. I guess I should have probably said "In a perfect world, artists would not have to rely so much on misleading gimmicks and images."

I wouldn't call it an inconsistency. I know good and well that Lady Gaga is pretty unoriginal. That doesn't stop me from loving her music (and her in general). Her songs are appealing to me. I love them for what they are, not because they're "original." I see a lot of Lady Gaga fans proclaim her as the most original artist on the planet -- which makes me wonder if they live in a cave. She's definitely interesting and a bit out there. Original? Nah. I can see you aren't the type of person I first thought you were, so you can take what I said in that paragraph with a grain of salt.

In regards to her commenting about drug usage, I was annoyed with her that she has the stupidity to say something like that in such a blase manner. If you know you're a ****ing huge hit with kids, are you really going to go on proudly about how drugs are how you make your music? I can understand she wants to be honest, but she should have been clear from the get go that she does not want anyone (i.e. children) to emulate her behavior. This was something she did not do until later. If her fans consisted of mainly adults, I would change my tune. (Most) adults can rationally reason and separate an artist's personal life with their work. Children on the other hand are not as readily able to do so.