Punk Rock is Bullsh*t (article/essay)

Unknown Soldier · 07-08-2013, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Nah. You had the Ramones sure, but other than that it was just an art rock scene. There may have been bands that had some punk rock sensibilities, but I think that's more down to there being a sort of underground, art rock/alternative rock/whatever-you-want-to-call-it zeitgeist that existed in many places all over the world, from New York to Britain to Cleveland to Australia and god knows where. True, the London and the New York scenes had some links, but I think that was just because they both had dedicated fanzines that got the word out.

I was going to list every capital city the world but thought better of it.

Quote:

I mean, you wouldn't call Patti Smith or Television or Blondie punk rock would you? And anyone who calls the Heartbreakers or the Voidoids punk is fooling themselves. The Heartbreakers just sounded like the New York Dolls Mk II and the Voidoids were just pub rock.

I always remember the first Blondie album sounding very punk and also there was a very thin line between punk, new wave and art rock at this time and Television because you've mentioned them were usually labelled as all three of the above labels. For this reason the Ramones, the Sex Pistols, early Clash and the Damned to name just a few were the first pure proponents of punk, as these bands were hardly art rock or new wave in 1976 and 1977.

Dr_Rez · 07-08-2013, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hat€monger ?

But you have to draw the line somewhere otherwise we'd be saying electronica was started in the stone age.

Like I said before punk didn't just suddenly exist, it evolved. And it became punk in London in 1976. Before that point it's still evolving.

Think of it like this, Your are counted as a person from when you came out of your mother. Not from the moment you were created in your Daddy's nutsack.

Why does any line have to be drawn? And no we wouldnt say it started int he stone age we would say it started whenever the first band/artist who made music that fit entirely inside the boundaries of what we now consider electronic.

I wouldnt consider sperm a person just like I wouldnt consider bb king blues rock, but the later Hendrix/Cream/BlueCheer just that. Why? because a fetus or seman is not counted as a person by todays standards. You admitted yourself that the music existed but just didnt have a label yet.

I think the debate we are now having is that if something fits within a genere but that genre hasn been labeled or publicly accepted/created yet is it ok to still consider it part of the genre in hindsight. I would say yes.

~~Lord Larehip~~ · 07-08-2013, 06:42 PM

Forget it, Rez. I've run into so many of these "We-Brits-Invented-Every-Music-Under-the-Sun" types online, I don't know where they all come from. Nobody in I met in England said that s-hit to my face. But I've run into Brits online who think they invented blues, who think they invented ragtime, who think they invented funk and soul, and one who said he hated bop jazz and preferred "good old UK trad jazz." So I guess they invented early jazz as well. We Americans stole it from them and called it Dixieland to hide its oh-so-obvious British origins.

Here's what Wiki said about the Dolls: "The New York Dolls is an American hard rock band formed in New York City in 1971. Along with the Velvet Underground and the Stooges, they were one of the first bands in the early punk rock scene.[2]" But they would be wrong, of course, because the Dolls didn't play anything that the Stones weren't playing in '68. I have that on good authority, you see.

Urban Hat€monger ? · 07-08-2013, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Larehip

Forget it, Rez. I've run into so many of these "We-Brits-Invented-Every-Music-Under-the-Sun" types online, I don't know where they all come from. Nobody in I met in England said that s-hit to my face. But I've run into Brits online who think they invented blues, who think they invented ragtime, who think they invented funk and soul, and one who said he hated bop jazz and preferred "good old UK trad jazz." So I guess they invented early jazz as well. We Americans stole it from them and called it Dixieland to hide its oh-so-obvious British origins.

Show me where anyone here has made those claims.

**Janszoon** · 07-08-2013, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hat€monger ?

Show me where anyone here has made those claims.

~~Lord Larehip~~ · 07-08-2013, 08:50 PM

HAHA!

Yeah, I once met this fellow online in a 50s rock forum who claimed he was a rockabilly fan from Britain. So I mentioned Gene Vincent as one of the single most important artists of all time and he replied, "Sorry, I only listen to British rockabilly."

???? Who would that be?? Imagine if you're British and you are talking to an American who claims he loves prog rock. So you start talking about Crimson and ELP and Gentle Giant and the Nice and Renaissance and the guy says, "Sorry but I only listen to American prog rock."

Like whom? Third-rate imitators as Kansas, Styx and Starcastle?? I mean, really. Why didn't he just say he's a flaming f-ucking idiot since it rolls off the tongue easier?

I don't know what to make of it.

William_the_Bloody · 07-09-2013, 12:13 AM

You Yanks & Brits crack me up! Don't you know punk began in Peru!!!

Where did punk begin? A cinema in Peru | Music | guardian.co.uk

Interesting article but Punk began in Britain, at least the punk I like. The hardcore wave of the late 70's early 80's was unquestionally inspired by the Pistols.

If it wasn't for them Jello Biafra would probably be a civic lawyer & Henry Rollins a manager at a mini mart.

There was never a mass wave of bands trying to imitate the Stooges in the early 70's, and not many people were influenced by heroin addicted New York bands like Johnny & the Heartbreakers. However, all the short cropped hair, saftey wearing pinned bands like the Circle Jerks, DK's and Black Flag, were primarily inspired by what was going on in London, not New York, despite the Ramones.

As for Los Saicos, well if they had any influence on Iggy, I guess that would make them the first proto punk band.

Dr_Rez · 07-09-2013, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Larehip

Forget it, Rez. I've run into so many of these "We-Brits-Invented-Every-Music-Under-the-Sun" types online, I don't know where they all come from. Nobody in I met in England said that s-hit to my face. But I've run into Brits online who think they invented blues, who think they invented ragtime, who think they invented funk and soul, and one who said he hated bop jazz and preferred "good old UK trad jazz." So I guess they invented early jazz as well. We Americans stole it from them and called it Dixieland to hide its oh-so-obvious British origins.

Here's what Wiki said about the Dolls: "The New York Dolls is an American hard rock band formed in New York City in 1971. Along with the Velvet Underground and the Stooges, they were one of the first bands in the early punk rock scene.[2]" But they would be wrong, of course, because the Dolls didn't play anything that the Stones weren't playing in '68. I have that on good authority, you see.

An absurd amount of influential bands in many genres have come from Britain. More than any other place including America.

Newkie · 07-09-2013, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Rez

Why does any line have to be drawn? And no we wouldnt say it started int he stone age we would say it started whenever the first band/artist who made music that fit entirely inside the boundaries of what we now consider electronic.

Surely this is problematic though. What "we consider now" I mean, wouldn't this lead to endless reclassification of genres by every generation with an interest in the history of a genre? Who's to say what fits entirely, predominantly or minimally in a genre?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Larehip

Here's what Wiki said about the Dolls: "The New York Dolls is an American hard rock band formed in New York City in 1971. Along with the Velvet Underground and the Stooges, they were one of the first bands in the early punk rock scene.[2]"

So you're saying you can't be involved in a scene if you are not specifically a "enter genre here" artist?

Nurse Duckett · 07-09-2013, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Larehip

Forget it, Rez. I've run into so many of these "We-Brits-Invented-Every-Music-Under-the-Sun" types online, I don't know where they all come from. Nobody in I met in England said that s-hit to my face. But I've run into Brits online who think they invented blues, who think they invented ragtime, who think they invented funk and soul, and one who said he hated bop jazz and preferred "good old UK trad jazz." So I guess they invented early jazz as well. We Americans stole it from them and called it Dixieland to hide its oh-so-obvious British origins.

We have a wind-up culture in Britain, we cant help it, we love to spot the weakness and push buttons and see who bites. Its a crude form of irony.

I get the feeling the Brits you've met online have seen you coming, they pushed all the right buttons and they've done such a good job you're still wound up years later. We're very very clever aren't we? I'm surprised we haven't invented even more than we have, we probably invented just about everything but people from other countries took the credit and we're far too modest to make a fuss about it. Thinking about it that's probably why we're called Great Britain instead of just Britain, because we're great.

Try and bear it in mind in future Lord Larehip, always remember the wind-up is as British as apple pie.

Have a nice day.

07-08-2013, 06:42 PM	#53 (permalink)
~~Lord Larehip~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 899	Forget it, Rez. I've run into so many of these "We-Brits-Invented-Every-Music-Under-the-Sun" types online, I don't know where they all come from. Nobody in I met in England said that s-hit to my face. But I've run into Brits online who think they invented blues, who think they invented ragtime, who think they invented funk and soul, and one who said he hated bop jazz and preferred "good old UK trad jazz." So I guess they invented early jazz as well. We Americans stole it from them and called it Dixieland to hide its oh-so-obvious British origins. Here's what Wiki said about the Dolls: "The New York Dolls is an American hard rock band formed in New York City in 1971. Along with the Velvet Underground and the Stooges, they were one of the first bands in the early punk rock scene.[2]" But they would be wrong, of course, because the Dolls didn't play anything that the Stones weren't playing in '68. I have that on good authority, you see.

07-08-2013, 08:50 PM	#56 (permalink)
~~Lord Larehip~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 899	HAHA! Yeah, I once met this fellow online in a 50s rock forum who claimed he was a rockabilly fan from Britain. So I mentioned Gene Vincent as one of the single most important artists of all time and he replied, "Sorry, I only listen to British rockabilly." ???? Who would that be?? Imagine if you're British and you are talking to an American who claims he loves prog rock. So you start talking about Crimson and ELP and Gentle Giant and the Nice and Renaissance and the guy says, "Sorry but I only listen to American prog rock." Like whom? Third-rate imitators as Kansas, Styx and Starcastle?? I mean, really. Why didn't he just say he's a flaming f-ucking idiot since it rolls off the tongue easier? I don't know what to make of it.

07-09-2013, 12:13 AM	#57 (permalink)
William_the_Bloody Music Addict Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Sunnydale Cemetary Posts: 2,093	You Yanks & Brits crack me up! Don't you know punk began in Peru!!! Where did punk begin? A cinema in Peru \| Music \| guardian.co.uk Interesting article but Punk began in Britain, at least the punk I like. The hardcore wave of the late 70's early 80's was unquestionally inspired by the Pistols. If it wasn't for them Jello Biafra would probably be a civic lawyer & Henry Rollins a manager at a mini mart. There was never a mass wave of bands trying to imitate the Stooges in the early 70's, and not many people were influenced by heroin addicted New York bands like Johnny & the Heartbreakers. However, all the short cropped hair, saftey wearing pinned bands like the Circle Jerks, DK's and Black Flag, were primarily inspired by what was going on in London, not New York, despite the Ramones. As for Los Saicos, well if they had any influence on Iggy, I guess that would make them the first proto punk band.