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View Poll Results: Choose.
Trout Mask Replica (1969) 26 47.27%
The Velvet Underground & Nico (1967) 29 52.73%
Voters: 55. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-01-2017, 06:45 PM   #211 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MicShazam View Post
So if I've heard a Velvet Underground album, heard various Lou Reed tracks, heard some Nico tracks a while ago, heard a lot of highly praised 60's and 70's rock - both more radio friendly and more arty material. Is it really any wonder I'm choosing to say "allright, enough is enough" at some point? I really doubt you or anyone would behave differently. I'm pretty sure I can't persuade you to listen to more of whatever I like that you don't like (so uhh, most of it, I guess). Just saying you and everyone else really has the same approach as me.
I mean sure, I believe that you believe that you have come to a good and informed decision on this. But here's the thing: you are not informed on this album and haven't made a justified decision on this.

Analogy time.

MicShazam: I don't like sushi.
Me: Bummer, where did you try it at?
MicShazam: Nah I haven't tried it because I've had fish sticks and didn't like them.
Me: Sushi is crazy different from fish sticks, you should still try it just to know.
MicShazam: I'm pretty comfortable with eating pizza, I'm just gonna stick to trying out new pizzas instead of eating something that I know I'll hate.
Me: How can you know that you'll hate it if your expectations are way different than what sushi is actually like?
MicShazam: Listen, I only have so much stomach, I can't just eat everything.
Me: *facedesk*
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Old 11-01-2017, 06:48 PM   #212 (permalink)
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Cop outs are not good arguments. What you're arguing here is just an empty way for you to write off anything that isn't already on the roster.
No, because that roster is expanding semi daily and I'm already picking a pretty broad range of material and allowing for surprises plentifully. Every single thing that I've lined up to check out/listen to in full represents 100 things not being put on the list. I fail to see how any other approach is even possible. Unless you just start from the top like Trollheart is doing with the wiki list, which your all telling him is retarded.

This is all general and not specifically about this VU album.

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Also, I would definitely check out any album that is as important and oft-discussed as the VU & Nico just to have an idea of what everyone's talking about.
About that specific album, it really isn't too weird that I'm not feeling a great deal of enthusiasm about the idea of listening to it. Pretty damn consistently, over the last 10 years, I've had little except a shrug to offer for all the supposedly important and fantastic 60's, 70's and 80's rock albums (including sub-genres, of course) that I have given a shot. I mean, would Elphenor listen to whatever I have to recommend? Not until hell freezes over. It's the same situation, uh, sort of. Except I have some actual respect for people who enjoy music that I don't tend to care much about
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Old 11-01-2017, 06:52 PM   #213 (permalink)
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Pretty damn consistently, over the last 10 years, I've had little except a shrug to offer for all the supposedly important and fantastic 60's, 70's and 80's rock albums (including sub-genres, of course) that I have given a shot.
I get that, but understand that THE VELVET UNDERGROUND AND NICO IS A SINGULAR ALBUM THAT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE OTHER CLASSIC ROCK ALBUMS OR ANY ALBUMS FOR THAT MATTER SO EVEN COMPARING THE ALBUM TO ALBUMS FROM BAND MEMBERS' DISCOGRAPHIES IS A MISNOMER.
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Old 11-01-2017, 06:53 PM   #214 (permalink)
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I mean sure, I believe that you believe that you have come to a good and informed decision on this. But here's the thing: you are not informed on this album and haven't made a justified decision on this.
I wouldn't even say that I have. What I'm arguing is more accurately that sometimes making your decisions based likelihood an past experiences is a good approach. Just like I don't tend to go to clubs because I hated it all the previous times I went.

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Analogy time.

MicShazam: I don't like sushi.
Me: Bummer, where did you try it at?
MicShazam: Nah I haven't tried it because I've had fish sticks and didn't like them.
Me: Sushi is crazy different from fish sticks, you should still try it just to know.
MicShazam: I'm pretty comfortable with eating pizza, I'm just gonna stick to trying out new pizzas instead of eating something that I know I'll hate.
Me: How can you know that you'll hate it if your expectations are way different than what sushi is actually like?
MicShazam: Listen, I only have so much stomach, I can't just eat everything.
Me: *facedesk*
Yeah, well, Night of Hunters is nothing like any previous Tori Amos album, so go listen to that **** now.
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Old 11-01-2017, 06:56 PM   #215 (permalink)
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I wouldn't even say that I have. What I'm arguing is more accurately that sometimes making your decisions based likelihood an past experiences is a good approach. Just like I don't tend to go to clubs because I hated it all the previous times I went.
It's a good general rule but should be adjusted for contexts like these where basing it on your past experiences doesn't make any sense because it is different from any experience you've ever had.

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Yeah, well, Night of Hunters is nothing like any previous Tori Amos album, so go listen to that **** now.
Should I check out any previous ones first?
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Old 11-01-2017, 07:02 PM   #216 (permalink)
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I get that, but understand that THE VELVET UNDERGROUND AND NICO IS A SINGULAR ALBUM THAT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE OTHER CLASSIC ROCK ALBUMS OR ANY ALBUMS FOR THAT MATTER SO EVEN COMPARING THE ALBUM TO ALBUMS FROM BAND MEMBERS' DISCOGRAPHIES IS A MISNOMER.[/U][/I][/B]
Forgive me if I have a hard time believeing I would find it as unique as you guys do. Try giving 5 different glasses of red wine to someone who doesn't like red wine. Then offer them a 6th glass and insist it's different. It wont be to them.

I may even give the god damn thing a listen tomorrow just to end this lame discussion.

I'm going to say exactly what I think, whether positive or negative, and make no attempts at showing respect for a supposed classic.
It wont get special treatment just because it enjoys an elevated status among certain people. I'll be fair and honest and 100% subjective.
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Old 11-01-2017, 07:03 PM   #217 (permalink)
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Should I check out any previous ones first?
Nah, It's good on its own. It's going to be of more value if you recognize all of the classical pieces that's been reworked into songs on the album. You probably do, I'd imagine.
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Old 11-01-2017, 07:05 PM   #218 (permalink)
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Forgive me if I have a hard time believeing I would find it as unique as you guys do. Try giving 5 different glasses of red wine to someone who doesn't like red wine. Then offer them a 6th glass and insist it's different. It wont be to them.
A better example would giving someone who doesn't like red wine 5 glasses of wine and a glass of orange juice and insisting that the orange juice tastes differently when they say that they didn't like the wine.

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I may even give the god damn thing a listen tomorrow just to end this lame discussion.

I'm going to say exactly what I think, whether positive or negative, and make no attempts at showing respect for a supposed classic.
It wont get special treatment just because it enjoys an elevated status among certain people. I'll be fair and honest and 100% subjective.
As it should be. I **** on classics all day. I at least listen to them beforehand though.
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Old 11-01-2017, 07:12 PM   #219 (permalink)
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A better example would giving someone who doesn't like red wine 5 glasses of wine and a glass of orange juice and insisting that the orange juice tastes differently when they say that they didn't like the wine.
If you say so. That's the part of the argument I'll find out if I can agree with when I listen tomorrow.

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As it should be. I **** on classics all day. I at least listen to them beforehand though.
Sure, that's the way to do it. That's the whole reason to listen to something: To earn the right to complain about it. Actually ending up liking it is an unexpected bonus.
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Old 11-01-2017, 07:15 PM   #220 (permalink)
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So now it's elph's turn to listen to Gorguts or be seen as a bitch.
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