Goblin Tears

The Jesus from the Bible is as gay as Christmas. Cliché homo if there ever was one.

adidasss

Thanks, I really appreciate this post, especially because yours are the posts I've been thinking about the most.

The problem is that I once had pretty much the same opinion you did about camp and campy gay people, I felt those kinds of homosexuals reflect negatively on all of us and perpetuate stereotypes.

This was years ago though, and at a time when I was just coming out and felt the need to gain acceptance and placate the hetero majority by conforming to their views of what is or isn't acceptable behavior. I think I can correlate the issue with what some people (including a lot of Croatian gay people, unfortunately) have with pride parades. They feel that it's contra-productive to "provoke" the heterosexual majority by "flaunting" our sexuality. Some heterosexual people like to say that they're ok with homosexuality, as long as you keep it in the bedroom. I believe this is what jackhammer wanted to say.

Obviously I don't agree with this. The main purpose of gay pride parades is to increase visibility, make people realize we do exists and are citizens of the same country and have a right to lead normal lives without being discriminated against despite being different. This is also why coming out is incredibly important. It's very easy to demonize what you don't know. Once you put a face and a personality on a label it's much harder to hold the same animosity you have against an "unknown enemy".

Regarding your posts, it made me wonder whether you have the same sort of negative feelings towards heterosexual people who are open about their sexuality (I know you've said you also disapprove of heterosexual people doing the same but what I'm wondering is if you have the same exact reaction to it). I'm gonna be honest and say that I feel you probably don't. But I'm not going to judge you too harshly because I have similar feelings of distaste when heterosexual people talk about their sexual lives. Mostly based on the fact that I don't relate and therefore get bored by it. Maybe this is what you're talking about (unless you have a problem with them talking about gay sex, which could be inferred from the "spare me the details" bit, which would be prejudice, but only you can answer that).

So, in short, I don't think anyone should stifle their personality just so they don't piss anyone off. I think diversity is wonderful and the more people show how different they are the better. That shouldn't be a reason to discriminate against anyone. Plus, campy men are probably the most fun people I know.

Regarding my problems with homosexuality, I'm gonna have to disappoint you here. Like I said, I have had some hangups in the past, but I got rid of most of them a while ago. Now if only I can get them to listen to some good music...

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“Think of what a paradise this world would be if men were kind and wise.” - Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle.

Last.fm

adidasss

No wait, I've just thought of one. Shallowness. Yes. There is an incredible focus on physical beauty and fitness amongst gay men and I've definitely fallen under its influence (gotta get that six pack one of these days). But then I guess it's normal because straight men have managed to force similar standards towards women, so maybe it's just men in general. :\

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“Think of what a paradise this world would be if men were kind and wise.” - Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle.

Last.fm

boo boo

Yeah we already have like 20 threads where we argue about the legshaving thing so I'm keeping this brief.

People have a right to do anything they want as long as they don't try to make others feel inferior because theirs isn't the "right" choice.

Simple right?

But when I mean threaten the lives of others I meant other people. I understand why people go vegan and everything and I know that some people like you can still be respectful to those who don't share their point of view.

But just like anyone else who gets too wrapped up in a cause they can often make sh*t up to scare or guilt trip people into joining their clique. No belief system (unless based on solipsism or bigotry against other people) is inherently bad, it's when people can't make the distinction between a subjective point of view and what should be the law of the land. Every philosophical idea can and has been corrupted for this reason.

Weither you're a hardcore vegan or a christian crusader, everyone can find ways to justify their cause by cherry picking facts that are consistant with it and ignoring facts that are not, I'm absolutely sure that any cause or belief can be justified this way.

So overall I confess to not believing in any objective morals. I only believe in one and that is not trying to control or change someone else's lifestyle, or rape and kill people or take their sh*t, of course.

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It's only knock n' knowall, but I like it

http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs

right-track

I'll try and answer your post in the short time I've got tonight as honestly as I can.

Apologies for breaking up your post into sections. It's not something I like doing because it looks like I'm nit picking.
That isn't the case at all.

You strike me as an introverted kind of person with a measured and thoughtful mindset. I know you're shy and find it difficult around people you're not comfortable with. It looks like you've found your own particular way to go forward.
By being you and not some kind of fake cartoon character.
Some people don't have that level of self assurance to be...just themselves.

Just out of interest. Would a high profile Straight Pride Parade be considered homophobic?
As we both know, a lot of heterosexual men feel threatened when homosexuals flaunt their sexuality.
That's their own insecurities at play.

I can't speak for Lee, but I'm comfortable around homosexuals.
I certainly don't have any issues with open acts of affection between two people of the same sex. Providing it doesn't exceed the normal standards that apply to everyone.
My niece is a lesbian (which is debatable due to her long history of attention seeking behaviour and her affection for shocking others at every opportunity she gets...but that's another story) and her long string of girlfriends, her behaviour and my tolerance, will bear testimony to my acceptance.

I'm not at all uncomfortable with homosexuals discussing their sex lives providing it's conducted on a mature level which reflects their personality.
What I mean by personality, is that in my experience, some people, whether straight or gay, have insecurity issues and they tend to overcompensate with displays of outrageous, attention seeking behaviour.
The discrimination on my part focuses on that kind of behaviour.
An arsehole is an arsehole in any language, nationality, gender, or sexual persuasion.
I don't truly believe that the over camp behaviour is a true personality trait, but is a forced, over the top persona.
Much the same as the straight guy bragging about his sexual conquests to the lads. It's their attempt to fit in.
I understand that many gay men have an effeminate nature and agree that they can be fun and genuinely comical.
These aren't the kind of gay men I'm referring to.

I've used an exert from an earlier post of mine as an example of the kind of gay, unfunny, interrupted twattery that irritates me no end;

OK...I get it (oooooooooh I bet you do!)...you're gay.
But please, please, please ("ooh, I love it when you beg") don't ram the fact down my throat ("you wish big boy")
I don't have a problem with your gayness, ("get him") but for Christs sake, spare me the fucking details! ("temper, temper")


It's not amusing in the least. In England there's been a steady stream of gay comedians who in my opinion are far from funny.
Are they comedians because they are funny? No, they are over camp, gay men who think they are funny by being over camp.
Not comedians in any sense of the word. It's tiresome.

That type of behaviour (the OTT kind) does piss me off and it isn't just their "personality" I'd like to stifle...but their breathing too.

Diversity makes the world a more colourful place to live, but not at the expense of sincerity.

Normal queers, yes. , but the drama queens are lost to Abba, The Village People et al.
Funny how they have shit taste in music isn't it?
No coincidence either!

Congratulations, you've just managed to make what I think is my longest post since I joined.

And the best of it is...after a quick read back, I could have answered it with the one sentence I just bolded.

jackhammer

I am perfectly fine around *** people. In my last three jobs I have ended up working with lesbians with the mainstay of my night shift in my present job being a lesbian and we get on like a house on fire.

I didn't word my last post too well but I have been mentioned in the last couple of posts which is surprising as I only have one post within this thread which was merely a question with no opinion put forth regarding this subject matter.

Some posts have stated that man is only here to reproduce (in so many words) and that it's against the natural order of things but so what? It's not as if the human race is in need of more children. I don't think that homosexuality is a recent phenomenon and it is widely known that the Romans practiced it and it wasn't frowned upon.

I am not going to try to ingratiate myself into this thread in order to be compliant. I genuinely have no problem with homosexuality at all and like all facets of society the only thing I dislike is if I choose to have an opinion that differs from that particular minority. This applies to religion, dietary habits, anti smokers and many others. I live my life a certain way and it should be be respected as I respect you (not personally Marijan).

I do have a problem with camp people but then that applies to giggly, screaming females who annoy me too so it's not me being selective at all. I just don't like peoples characters shoved in my face- I prefer to peel away and find their personality that way.

I know I am rambling a little and not achieving coherency but I have never ever been bothered by peoples orientation or beliefs. I just like people with something to say about themselves and a modicum of intelligence.

I can barely stand the music you like Marijan and I don't share some of your views on many things but I genuinely value your presence on these boards and think that you are erudite and intelligent and you always have a back up for your arguments.

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adidasss

Ah, but we differ here. I'm introverted and shy because I don't have the self-assurance to be myself around new people. This is why I never give off a good first impression. I believe it's much better to be an extrovert, they're just generally more fun to be around with. And I think they really don't care what others think of them. This is why I respect and kinda admire campy people, they seem without inhibition and certainly more relaxed and free than I am...:\

I'd have to answer yes. Unlike gay people, straight people have all the legal rights, are a very visible majority and are generally not abused by gay people so I don't see what the purpose of that kind of parade would be, other than a direct negative reaction to gay parades ("if you can have a parade, so can we!" kind of attitude which overlooks the purpose of gay parades outlined above).

Incidentally, we've had such parades which promote "heterosexual values" for the last couple of years in Croatia parallel to gay parades (also one of the reasons why our parades look like this. Notice the charming blue men on the outskirts). Unsurprisingly, they're called "anti-gay" parades and are participated by a handful of radical christian whackjobs...:\

Ok, I think I understand what you're saying and don't fault you for it, but lemme just make a counterpoint which I believe has been stressed before; plenty of straight men are equally, if not more obnoxious towards women, yet no one thinks to judge their behavior solely on the fact of their sexual preference (i.e. they're not ramming their sexuality down anyone's throat), they're simply labeled as obnoxious. :\

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“Think of what a paradise this world would be if men were kind and wise.” - Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle.

Last.fm

Scarlett O'Hara

If you are respecting what God intended it to be, you would also follow his "antihomosexual" parts as well. You can't just pick and choose what to follow.

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boo boo

No offense Vanilla but if you are a practicing Christian how can you be so openminded about homosexuality when the bible makes it pretty clear that it's a sin worth gruesome punishment?

Do you disregard things written in the old testament like some Christians do or what? Or do you not consider the bible to be the exact word of god?

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It's only knock n' knowall, but I like it

http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs

90'sMusicKid

I do respect his "antihomosexual" parts, therefore I am heterosexual, theres no part in the Bible that says I have to persecute every homosexual I see.

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