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Old 10-26-2014, 05:24 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by John Wilkes Booth View Post
as for eating animals... to me it is really quite simple. if you believe that kicking a cat is cruel and should be punished yet you buy meat that was raised on factory farms which cause 1000x as much suffering in animals then you are a hypocrite. there is no ethical principle being defended if you arbitrarily decide which animals can legally suffer and the circumstances under which this can happen.
This is a good point; anyone who has ever eaten a breakfast of bacon and eggs is on very shakey moral ground if they condemn the cat kicker.

Spoiler for in case anyone wants a reminder about battery-hen cruelty:


I suppose a distinction can be drawn -and presumably is drawn, legally- between cruelty to animals that serves some purpose and gratuitous cruelty, but morally that´s a rather blurred distinction and probably does little to console the battery hens.

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Christ,american prisons are already overcrowded, you want to jail someone for kicking a cat?!
^ Quite right! There are plenty of worse evils in society that should be attended to. If I were an American tax payer, I would be upset that my hard-earned tax payments were funding such a frivolous use of the legal system.

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And whatever the legal inconsistencies, I'd still be perfectly fine if I found out that he'd had his legs broken with a piece of rebar.
^ Sorry, Batlord, but are you seriously speculating about a guy having both his legs broken? IMO that is ghastly thing to consider and far more cruel than the guy´s original offence. He has been shamed on national tv and in a Musicbanter thread - isn´t that punishment enough?
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Old 10-26-2014, 07:34 AM   #22 (permalink)
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He has been shamed on national tv and in a Musicbanter thread - isn´t that punishment enough?
No.

This is a weird thread.

Animals that are specifically raised for food consumption being compared to house pets.
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Old 10-26-2014, 08:36 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lisnaholic View Post
This is a good point; anyone who has ever eaten a breakfast of bacon and eggs is on very shakey moral ground if they condemn the cat kicker.

Spoiler for in case anyone wants a reminder about battery-hen cruelty:


I suppose a distinction can be drawn -and presumably is drawn, legally- between cruelty to animals that serves some purpose and gratuitous cruelty, but morally that´s a rather blurred distinction and probably does little to console the battery hens.
I imagine it doesn't, but that doesn't mean that somebody willing to assault another being for no other reason than sadism is standing on the same ground as I am.

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^ Quite right! There are plenty of worse evils in society that should be attended to. If I were an American tax payer, I would be upset that my hard-earned tax payments were funding such a frivolous use of the legal system.
Punishing mindless sadism is a pretty good use of our tax dollars as far as I'm concerned. Much more useful than locking up nonviolent drug offenders.


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^ Sorry, Batlord, but are you seriously speculating about a guy having both his legs broken? IMO that is ghastly thing to consider and far more cruel than the guy´s original offence. He has been shamed on national tv and in a Musicbanter thread - isn´t that punishment enough?
I'm sorry, I'm supposed to care about this person's well-being? **** him. Why should I feel bad for him just because karma comes to collect?
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Old 10-26-2014, 07:04 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I didn´t really want to cross swords with the legendary Batlord, but I would like to say this:-

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I imagine it doesn't, but that doesn't mean that somebody willing to assault another being for no other reason than sadism is standing on the same ground as I am.
I don´t think I meant to say that we´re all on the same moral ground as the cat kicker, just that the moral divide is not that clear cut.
Also, I associate sadism with the deliberate infliction of pain, often applied, if the movies are to be believed, with slow relish, so I don´t think it´s the right word for what this guy did.
"Mindless" on the other hand is a perfect description. What I saw reminded me of the kind of unthinking cruelty that is not uncommon in small children.

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Punishing mindless sadism is a pretty good use of our tax dollars as far as I'm concerned. Much more useful than locking up nonviolent drug offenders.
I wouldn´t suggest that locking up nonviolent drug offenders was a useful way to spend tax dollars either, but I still feel that snarling up the law enforcement system over a couple of seconds of stupid behaviour (in which no person was hurt) is a waste of resources.
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I'm sorry, I'm supposed to care about this person's well-being? **** him. Why should I feel bad for him just because karma comes to collect?
^ I guess you don´t have to worry about this guy´s well-being if you don´t want to, Batlord, but your idea of justice is what? A kind of vigilante escalationism? Luckily it´s all hypothetical, but what should we do to a person who goes around breaking the legs of people who are cruel to animals? Perhaps the person who breaks the legs of the person who kicked the cat should have his tongue ripped out or something ...
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Old 10-26-2014, 07:12 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I still feel that snarling up the law enforcement system over a couple of seconds of stupid behaviour (in which no person was hurt) is a waste of resources.
See that's the thing. It shouldn't have to be a person for behavior like this to be considered punishable by jail time. You think he's really gonna think twice about this behavior if he just has to pay a fine and do community service? It's my opinion that applying as much stigmatism as you reasonably can to this behavior is the only way to prevent it.
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Old 10-26-2014, 09:12 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I don´t know, WhateverDude, I´m still not really convinced. Maybe I have less sympathy for cats than other people here, but my impression of the video was that this was a one-off childish misdemeanor, not necessarily some perverse repeat offender, or a scourge sweeping the US that needs to be stopped.

Also, the more laws you have, the more law breakers. Does America really need more people with criminal records? What´s going to come next - jail time for having over-due library books?
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Old 10-26-2014, 09:26 PM   #27 (permalink)
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If I was an American taxpayer, I'd much rather have my money go into stopping human trafficking (for example) than prosecuting a man for kicking a cat. I like animals, but sometimes we give them too much importance and let things get out of perspective.
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Old 10-26-2014, 09:32 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lisnaholic View Post
I don´t know, WhateverDude, I´m still not really convinced. Maybe I have less sympathy for cats than other people here, but my impression of the video was that this was a one-off childish misdemeanor, not necessarily some perverse repeat offender, or a scourge sweeping the US that needs to be stopped.
I don't think it matters if it's just a one-off incident. What he did was stupid, cruel, and for good reason culturally unacceptable. It might not be a widely repeated act but it's still the same abusive behavior that deserves punishment. You don't get to get a get out of jail free card because it's the first time you kicked a cat. **** that. That's ****ing stupid.

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Also, the more laws you have, the more law breakers. Does America really need more people with criminal records? What´s going to come next - jail time for having over-due library books?
They wouldn't have criminal records if they didn't engage in criminal behavior. What he did is already illegal as it should be. Making the jump from (yes,) a one-time act of animal cruelty to criminalizing something as small fry, comparatively harmless, and unrelated as overdue fees is a folly device for discrediting an argument.
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Old 10-26-2014, 09:35 PM   #29 (permalink)
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If I was an American taxpayer, I'd much rather have my money go into stopping human trafficking (for example) than prosecuting a man for kicking a cat. I like animals, but sometimes we give them too much importance and let things get out of perspective.
It's not like it's A or B. These kinds of statements are a little ridiculous. I'd be hard pressed to believe sending this man to prison would cost individual tax payers more than a hundred thousandth of a cent each.
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Old 10-26-2014, 09:51 PM   #30 (permalink)
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It's not like it's A or B. These kinds of statements are a little ridiculous. I'd be hard pressed to believe sending this man to prison would cost individual tax payers more a than hundred thousandth of a cent each.
No, but if you send him to prison, then you also have to send every single other guy who's kicked an animal, and the end result is a bunch of judges and policemen dealing with cases in which no human being was adversely affected, when they could be dealing with far more important matters.

Having said that, I don't condone violence to animals and feel sorry (and sore) for the cat. It's just that this has been blown way out of proportion.
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