I'd agree that the muslim ban is xenophobic considering the countries targeted, but border policy is necessary as a matter of function. And don't go giving me that elph argument of "Germany is just fine without it" because we are not Germany. The US is not in a position to take on a bunch more people right now, it's not xenophobic or racist. We have enough problems with the lower class that aren't being addressed and you want to take on a bigger burden?

For the record, I don't agree with the wall, and I think people should be allowed to come here, but they need to do it through the proper channels. And you completely ignored my question about border policies in Canada/Mexico. Are they xenophobic/racist?

I say that it's driven by racism because his justifications for the wall was to keep the rapists and murderers out, not because of any (although outlandishly overblown) real world issues that we see from immigration (which aren't exactly the fault of immigrants, but that's another convo).

We are not analyzing his justifications. We are analyzing the policies themselves. And I'm still waiting for my question to be answered.

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To answer your question: hells yes let's take more on.

That's not the question I was talking about.. I asked 2x now if the border policies of Canada and Mexico are xenophobic/racist towards Americans.

Ah, didn't catch that. I think that Mexico's border policy is not racist because it is essentially nonexistent lol. Canada's might be, I don't know much about it. What do you think is racist about it?

Nothing. Border policies are not made to keep out specific people. They are made to keep out everyone unless they are approved to enter because they serve as a tool to keep that country's systems functioning. If Germany has open policy that's great, they either don't have enough people migrating to matter or they have systems in place to deal with it. We however do not, it's just that simple.

You're right that border policies aren't inherently racist. I still highly believe that the motivations for the wall are exclusively racist, which makes the wall racist too. Also, calling the wall border policy is a bit of a misnomer, isn't it? Since border policy is meant to have an actual effect on immigration, like the wall will fail to do in any kind of significant way?

the whole trump rise has tricked canadians into thinking we shouldn't being taking in many immigrants either but unfortunately they're ignoring the fact that we'll end up severely under-populated without immigration.

But the wall is already there.. You're acting like he's introducing something new. I don't know the history of the wall, but I'm curious to know if everyone cried racism when it was first built. I don't even know who built it.

I'll even concede to you that immigration from Mexico may not be as big of a problem it's made out to be. I'd have to do some research or you'd have to make a case, but the bottom line is: the wall is there to help prevent people from undermining border policies, and if he thinks that improving it would help prevent the undermining of those policies than it's not racist policy.

This argument is analogous to putting more cops in high crime areas to help restrict increasing crime rates, where crime is immigration and cops are the wall.

The wall we currently have is a fence and the reason I said it won't be effective is because the majority of people illegally entering the country through Mexico tunnel their way in. A wall won't do zilch about tunnels (or ladders).

I'm not for the wall and I agree it won't be effective. I'm debating if the idea of making it better is inherently racist (which is what everyone giving Ant shit are arguing). I said it's not and explained why, and I've yet to see anyone in this thread, currently or in past conversations, justify their claim that it is. It's just a bunch of Trump hating (totally understandable) without any logic.

If you buy a dog for the use of attacking black people, is your dog racist?

Who called out Obama for being racist when he signed a bill that spent 600 million to improve border security?

With a quick google search I found this:

Mexico's Immigration Law: Let's Try It Here at Home | Human Events

Time for both of us to do some fact checking. I wonder where you came up with that.

I came up with that through my several experiences of going to Mexico with absolutely nothing stopping me and from friends of mine who are exclusively American citizens who routinely stay for months in Mexico. Not to mention that the punishment for it is still essentially zero: "A penalty of up to two years in prison and a fine of three hundred pesos will be imposed on the foreigner who enters the country illegally." Which in Mexico, means that you just have to bribe the cops 600 pesos (aka 60 dollars). They won't even deport you.

General Population Law of Mexico translation:
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/d...0KOSLOWSKI.pdf

Your anecdotal evidence showing they don't deport Americans does not equal nonexistent immigration policies.. The US has a "problem" with Mexicans, Mexico has a "problem" with Central Americans..

https://www.wola.org/2015/05/border-...order-efforts/ - these are minors fleeing from bad situations and they are still being deported.

I don't think we have a problem with Mexicans. I don't think I've ever had one negative experience with a Mexican.

If I wasn't clear that statement meant immigration, not the people themselves, but please feel free to continue trying to discredit me since you don't have an actual counter argument for the actual point I'm making.

I change my answer to them being racist.

I'll humor you one more time before I go back to ignoring you.. The problem is with the amount of people illegally immigrating from Mexico. There is nothing wrong with those people, the problem is with the quantity and the inability of our current systems to handle the affects immigration has on population management policy.

You're just splitting hairs now. Sure, Muslims are not a race, but his policy is predicated on the (totally false) idea or fear that Muslims will be carrying bombs into the USA or are all arriving with the intention of committing terrorist acts. Gypsies aren't a race either, and though I hesitate to use the H word, it doesn't make Adolf not a racist that he targeted them along with Jews and other "inferiors".

Also, do you not consider the walls erected in Serbia, Hungary and other European countries to keep out the immigrants racist, because I certainly do. I don't see any real difference between that and this Mexican Wall. Whether there's one there or not is not the issue: the fact that he wants to expand it AND make them pay for the ****ing thing is not only racist but totally arrogant. I mean, back before 1990 would you have considered then East Germany racist if they had expanded the Berlin Wall, built it higher? Just because a bad thing is there already, doesn't make adding to it any less reprehensible.

Lol. I hate you. It's not racist you ass. You have to assess what your economy and social systems can handle. If an overwhelming amount of immigration is hurting a country it only makes sense to try and prevent it to better establish themselves.

To steal an analogy from someone:

You have 2 people. 1 is starving and the other has only enough food not to starve. Do you take food from the starving person? If you do neither will live. Yes, it's better to share the wealth, but not if you're making the situation worse for everyone instead of just one party. That's illogical.

How does the saying go? Cutting off your nose to spite your face?

Sorry Troll. Thank you for the response but I already addressed this in the convo I had since you posted your original comment. You can go back and read my arguments, and if you'd like to offer a counter point (that I have not considered) I'd be more than happy to talk it through with you.

I don't think illegal immigration makes nearly as much of an impact as people claim, but at the same time we have some of the most relaxed immigration laws of any 1st world country. I have a friend who was going to move to UK to be with his now wife. He was deported soon as he got off the plane. His wife moved here and is now working on her citizenship. Because it's easy.

We are built on immigration. Nobody wants people to stop immigrating. They just want them to do it legally. And for those that want people to do it legally, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I get how a lot of the immigration back lash comes from white racist nationalist trash, but not all. And those that are not racist have a good point. And it's not just white people that think people should be immigrating legally. For any dumb ass liberal that wants to make it into a race thing, shut the **** up because you give your party a bad name. And that's sad, because you are the better party.

Better stop now. You're making sense and will be labeled a racist by MB.

Totally. However, our immigration system is unnecessarily difficult to navigate, especially for people in an unstable situation. We need help policy reform, and a wall is not it.

Yeah, I've seen the jokes these people laugh at.

And I also don't care. On half thinks I'm racist, the other thinks I'm an SJW. I'm just somebody that thinks for them self. I know, it's rare to see.

Like usual you leave shit out to make yourself look good, but you're forgetting the very important word, ILLEGAL.

I didn't say I support a wall. A wall is ****ing stupid.

Our immigration laws are confusing, but most countries just won't take people if their situation is unstable. Like Canada, you have to have a certain amount of money and some kind of skills proving that you can make it in the work force.

No, it's not racist in it's self. You know, when you call things racist that aren't really racist you demean the things that really are racist and take the focus away from them. It's disgusting. It's like whiny bitches claiming or self diagnosing themselves with mental illness because they think it's cool or they need to be a victim.

Also, it's not about immigration. It's about illegal immigration. Which has less to do with race and more to do with the people living here contributing to society. You think illegal immigrants get properly trained or supervised when doing work? You think they pay taxes to contribute to the country? Do you think they get drafted to war? Or have to do jury duty?

Why do you think Canada requires people to have job skills before they can immigrate? Is that racist?

Yes, because if that were the case we'd have systems in place that supported it. We wouldn't have 1000s of people mooching off a system they don't contribute to. I love how you shit all over rich people dodging taxes, but when the poor illegal immigrants do it because they are trying to find a better life than it's justifiable. Not it isn't, they are still a burden to the people who took appropriate steps and contribute to society. They are both harmful in different ways, you just happen to despise one group and have sympathy for another which hinders your ability to think rationally. The difference is I don't let my bias get in the way of logic when addressing the situation.

I fear for the future of America if you're writing policy. You can't even form a complete sentence or fully develop a thought, nor do you have any interest in actually having a conversation. You're a contradictorian :( and more dangerous than Trump.

How much money do you think it'd cost us to train immigrants on how to adapt to our country and our workforce so they can be productive members of society compared to making sure they have all of that already before taking them in?

Poor people not paying taxes has such an immensely smaller impact on the budget than rich people not paying taxes. Right?

Hell yes I do.

qualifying doesnt mean you'll get accepted. we have a pretty notoriously picky system. even once you do get accepted they're pretty relentless with their follow up.

No, because poor people work and pay taxes, so no they aren't just using resources.

Not a lot, it's much easier for people to illegally immigrate to America.

Then why do they ask for it in the sign up?

I love when you talk out your ass, as if you actually know.

Canadian Immigration Policy, Rules and regulations.