sleepy jack

Did you not see the Britney Spears Joy Division thing? Record sales do not determine greatness.

Yeah but its still safe to assume Sabbath already had their sound down, aside from that i'd hardly consider having a year of on a band enough time to 'pave the way.'

Are you saying my list is a rehash of every list in a guitar magazine? I didn't really understand what you were trying to say.

I'd like to see examples of them using all those styles because from the Zeppelin i've heard, I havn't heard all those.

No, theres a difference between doing one list with the same idea (best punk artists, best guitars, whatever) and recreating it. Recreating it is trying to come up with the same bands. Doing the same idea is just that, doing the same idea not the same bands.

__________________

Son of JayJamJah

@ Crowquill and all I suppose

I only dismiss your Britney Spears and Joy Division point because it is not relevant to the discussion. I am referencing the Greatest selling Artists of all-time Michael Jackson, Elvis Presley, The Beatles and Frank Sinatra are 1 through 4. Collectively they are: The King of Rock, The King of Pop, The Chairman of the Board and "Bigger then Jesus". #5 is Led Zeppelin. See my point. The Cliche, trite as it may be, "You are judged by the company you keep" rings ever so true. Do you see my point? You might "accidentally", to put it plainly, have commercial success as Britney Spears did for a few years in the early part of the decade, or as Johan Pachabel did with Canon in D. But in the end the Mozart's and Beethoven's will have inevitably surpassed you much like the Beatles, Old Blue Eyes and Led Zeppelin have.

In regards to your correct point that a two album head start is hardly paving the way for an band that undoubtedly had an established sound: I'm not crediting Zeppelin with influencing Sabbath, only with bringing a style of music to the mainstream that allowed for an easier path to in crowd super stardom for Ozzy and the like. Similar to Nirvana's impact on the 90's Music scene and the subsequent popularity of previously fringe genre bands like Soundgarden and Pearl Jam etc.

I like your list, I like my list, my only point is that all lists are inspired by previously lists and the flaws we personally assess to them. My list is far from original but it's individuality can not be challenged and as I have mentioned so many times before, it is still be molded by trial and error. If you want recommendations of Zeppelin songs to listen to I'd be happy to oblige, in fact if you like I'll purchase their entire catalog via Itunes if it would be suitable for you. My list started with several off the beaten paths selections that were beaten down by popular opinion. Both here and in other forums, there is a reason most professional done lists look similar, Because they are well researched and accurate. When I wrote about Rock Music, I'd hear myriads of opinions on greatness and influence but the same ones that some people here have charged as tacky or redundant are the ones that I'd hear most frequent and passionately. So I hope, regardless of your independent thoughts, where I am coming from with mine.

i get high sometimes

well, by your first point there, how are the beatles, frank sinatra, michael jackson, and elvis not above led zep? all four are undoubtedly better, why not?

Son of JayJamJah

Mate, is your skull thick or are you simply an instigator?

1) the list is a work in progress
2) several difficult to concisely define criteria influence the list
3) personal opinion is among said criteria
4) Sinatra is not a rock and roll type performer and thus excluded like Beethoven and other composers. Elvis and Michael Jackson both had incredible peaks, but were unable to maintain and sort of imploded damaging their legacies I believe.
5) Alright; The Beatles are better then Zeppelin by any majority based criteria but I am an enormous Zeppelin fan (shocking I know) and it's MY EFFING LIST...I suppose.

fair enough?

Frances

Fair enough indeed.

Picky buggers.

__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Yup.

i get high sometimes

i seriously wonder whether your skull is made of rock as well.

1. sure, but the #1 spot isn't changing because you're a fanboy.
2. and beatles dominate in each of the criterea, as well as in public opinion
3. oops, except this category, they don't dominate. apparently this is the most important criterea, even though you brought the list before an entire music community for critique....
4.rakim is not a rock and roll performer, tupac isn't, ray charles isn't, bob marley isn't, theyre all on your list. apparently the rock n roll-ness of the artist only matters when they threaten led zeps undeserved spot.
5. youre a fanboy.

MHDTV

I believe it's supposed to be a community effort actually.

__________________
Quoted for untruth.

Finally, a signature that's chewy not chalky!

Let's agree to disagree.

Son of JayJamJah

@MHDTV

No it's my list.

I asked y'all for help, but it's my list. I also asked friends and other forums for help. I intend to make a documentary film of it and a music library from each included artist and give it to my grandchildren and at the moment the first of which rests in my daughter-in-law's tummy. So again my blood in that baby, my effing list. The band tournament is for everyone and I did it because I enjoy this forum in particular except for the "sometimes I get High" fella who can F-uc-k Off. I hate cyber-instigators. No offense of course.

i get high sometimes

hey, its only instigation because you choose to view it that way. if you'd just come off it and admit that your list is a joke it wouldnl't be instigation at all. why go through all this trouble of making a list and having to deal with cyber instigators like me when you could just go buy an issue of rolling stone and give it to him. waste of time if you ask me.

boo boo

Its debatable but I don't think they should be. Zeppelin defined hard rock more than they did metal, which Black Sabbath clearly did, but because of that I think it gives Zeppelin a broader influence, ranging from metal to punk (Johnny Ramone having admitting to ripping his whole guitar sound off of Communication Breakdown) to other things (even some prog bands credit them as influences) even if they might not have influenced as many bands.

Grunge bands like Pearl Jam, Alice In Chains and Soundgarden owed a lot to the arena rock sound that Zeppelin pioneered. Even Cobain credited them as an influence. I don't know if Jack White is a Zep fan, but he sure seems to be annoyed by how often The White Stripes are compared to Zep by critics. Almost every popular hard rock band gets compared to Zep even if they're not influenced by them, because thats just how much Zep defined hard rock.

And of course Wolfmother are very popular right now, and Woman is probably the biggest Zep imitation I have ever heard.

Same can be said for Zep. Just not primarly as much on metal.

Please. Don't compare Led Zeppelin to Coldplay. <_<

Not only is that not true, because Zep began diversifying their sound with III and onwards and their most well known song isn't even Blues based. But its also an ironic thing for a Rolling Stones fan to say.

Also not true. JPJ is not as well known as everyone else, but he had a lot to contribute. His bass playing is an important part of their sound, and he contributed with many other things as well, such as keyboards and string arangements. He even wrote the riff to Black Dog, which is one of their most popular riffs.

I smell a super fanboy.

Seriously. Chuck Berry and Jerry Lee Lewis were Rock N Roll pioneers. Why in the hell shouldn't they be above Zep?

As with VU, Holly, Diddley and Domino. I didn't say they should be above Zep for sure. But its certainly debatable.

VU were the first rock band to be associated with the whole modern art scene at the time. They were the anti Hippie band, and were the original alternative rock band.

Holly's career and his life was cut short, but even with such a short discography he had a huge impact. While he may not have had the popularity Elvis had, he was just as important to rockabilly. And unlike Elvis he also wrote his own songs, making him an early prototype for the whole singer/songwriter thing.

Diddley along with Berry is one of the true pioneers of Rock N Roll guitar. Even now his influence is felt, especially in punk bands.

And Domino, well. Many consider him the guy who f*cking invented Rock N Roll in the first place.

__________________
It's only knock n' knowall, but I like it

http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs