Marie Monday

sure, education and healthcare, which is why I focus on that

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jwb

i hate capitalism as well though. I just also acknowledge it's utility. Both I think that can only ever be a benefit as a temporary stepping stone, not the end of history. I think you go to the other extreme of being pro capitalism just because there is some utility to it. The was utility to the fuedal system as well. Like elph would say at some point yesterday's innovation becomes today's status quo and at that point if you don't challenge it's deficiencies in order to replace it with something better than your original innovation was for nothing.

I could be wrong but I think that impacts first world populations more than the global south. The increase in life expectancy is largely down to a decrease in infant mortality. But are the billions of people in the slums of Asia and Africa recurving much if any medical care at all?

Anteater

I don't fundamentally disagree here at all. That's why I think to fix humanity in a socioeconomic / macro sense, you can break it down in two tiers:

Shorter-term: Higher taxes on the top 1%, better healthcare / education, investment in infrastructure

Longer-term: Fix scarcity, implement labor automation via AI / robot work force, deal with existential / "spiritual-centric" issues, embrace biotech

Capitalism only exists now because you have these longer-term issues that need to be solved. Dealing with scarcity and labor would eliminate corporatism and would cause capitalism to be either dialed way back or it would no longer have any utility value as a means.


Probably not. Would you say that the decrease in infant mortality is the reason why those populations are so much larger in 2021 than ever before?

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jwb

Actually I think we might disagree because I'm not nearly as confident that we'll be saved by technology. I think it's just a likely technology will take us out. Or that the class system will continue to perpetuate just in a more high tech way. So I'm not about to wait around for robot slaves to save me. In my perception, the robots are actually competition. Not an ally.

I don't know what the answer is but if I had the means like these bill Gates and other philanthropists I would be setting up model societies to see what kind of constraints and problems have to be overcome. I think you learn a lot by experience and so I take the theoretical with a huge grain of salt.



it's possible, I don't really know what kind of medical care most of those people get when giving birth. I don't know if they have the same decrease in infant mortality that we do.

jwb

Actually I think there is an argument to be made that without stalinism the fascists might have won ww2 and we would be living in a very different world.

I'm not trying to deny or rebut the injustice of capitalism which might be why my argument failed to do so.

jwb

You don't understand but Marx did.

Do you never look around you and think about all the time and effort that has gone into the infrastructure you truly on just to do basic **** like turn on a light or buy an apple from a store?

My line of thinking is that just like industrialization alienates a worker from the product they are producing... All the technological progress we have inherited is alienating us from nature. From the base line animalistic reality of survival. That's why we suck at work. Because we are so many steps removed from the reason why the work needs to be done in the first place. We're becoming domesticated. That's why I believe eventually the robots will take us out rather than be our slaves.

jwb

IE As compared to how people lived before.

Once again the only actual difference between what we're saying is tone.

You can say being better that fuedalism and slavery is a low bar but the reality is it actually took is a damn long time to advance beyond those systems. Once again we are alienated from the brutal nature of reality cause we've been somewhat sheltered from it. 5 or 10 steps removed from seeing it up close and personal.

jwb

I see homeless all the time too but the reality is if you live in a city and are homeless you typically don't starve cause you can't afford food you starve cause you are on that **** and don't take even a second to quit getting high and eat something

Homeless people know where to find food. I've been there. Even the homeless aren't actually in touch with the true nature of survival though. They're domesticated too. They're like stray cats and dogs. Domesticated animals without shelter living off scraps. That's not the same thing as a truly wild animal.

jwb

As if the two are mutually exclusive lol

Just a coincidence that they happened at the same time huh

jwb

Imperialism predates European domination as well...