The Science

djchameleon · 03-01-2011, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoonlitSunshine

dj, I couldn't help but notice when reading through this thread that you often seem to favour a very... openly aggressive stance when it comes to confrontations. Like, in the whiskey situation, your hindsight response was to rip into the guy (in his own store, where he probably had the upper ground in any confrontation) and basically make a battle of it. The was another situation in thre thread where you talked about a similar situation where you would have eaten the guy's face off had you thought about it at the time (I can't remember the exact details, but the response was the same). I'm just wondering, are you of the opinion that this is the best thing to do, if you want to impress a girl watching the whole thing?

I don't mean to undermine you or anything, but where I'm from, blowing up because of a nasty comment is a sign of insecurity, which would be picked up on instantly by any girl. The fact that you would react so aggressively to the comment just shows that the other guy managed to hit you where it hurts. In my society, it's better to either roll with it and make a joke out of it (and make the girl laugh), or make a calm, slightly stabbing rebuttal implying that they have no clue what they're on about (Implying that you are totally unfazed by their meagre attempt to put you down). The instant you react aggressively is the instant you lose.

For example, I would ascribe much more to boozin's approach to the situation: basically ignoring his attempts to clear you out like he's not there, maybe keep asking him and the girl questions while you wander around the shop to frustrate him. Obviously, he wants to chat up the girl, and there's no way you're gonna manage it while he's there (indefinitely :P) so you may as well screw his chances even more, and hell, if you're funny enough in the process, you might get the girl on your side against him (especially if he reacts aggressively to your calm conversation). However, if you started going on about how he needed to take his cialis... it allows him to protray you as the bad guy, the stuck up young one trash talking him in his own store. If he's in any way experienced (which he probably is, owning a liquor store), he'd shut down that sort of approach in no time, just making you look like an idiot.

In other words: as soon as you accept his challenge, you put him on equal footing with you. You don't know how good he's gonna be at putting you down, and he's on his home turf with a much greater "piss off and leave" advantage than you have. The only way you can end the confrontation is by acceding to his demands that you leave, so as soon as you start it, all he has to do is stand his ground and eventually he'll come out looking better. But if you ignore his attempts to set up the fight, you can shoot him down without offering him a chance to level the playing field.

However, this could just be a difference between our societies. How would that go down where you're from? I guess it's all too possible that our cultures are just that different.

That was very well said and I should try that approach as opposed to the way I was thinking about putting him down but the girl in the store would have admired my tact regardless because she seemed like the type that liked aggressive guys that are confident and stand their ground even if they are losing the battle.

The "cialis" comment would have been made as a joke in an attempt to get the girl to laugh. It would all boil down to how I deliver my insults. There are different ways I could have handled the situation like you said and of course it depends on the girl that I'm trying to impress would make me change up my strategy on how to handle it. There is a lot of room for error but it's best to play it by ear and wing it.

I wasn't even there to really hit on the girl though or try to get a date with her or anything. I just took the opportunity that she came into the store to playfully flirt with her.

MoonlitSunshine · 03-01-2011, 04:47 AM

Hm. Interesting. I understand that you were just flirting, btw - I've only spent two months of the last 5 years single (two serious relationships) but in the current one, we live in different countries and also have the same attitude towards flirting, so it's allowed within the relationship so long as it's always playful :P We're both fairly big flirts, so we figured so long as we're in control and it stops before anyone gets any ideas, it's harmless!

Also understanding the cialis remark being a joke, however it'd be close enough to a jab defined as "Well Harsh" over here, basically meaning that you've overstepped the boundaries of a joke and that the subject of the jab is justified in taking the offended "and what exactly do you mean by that?" approach, and making you out to be the bad guy in the situation. Especially if he was only in his 50s, chances are he has plenty of life left, and would have shrugged something like that off like nothing :P

However, I guess a lot of it comes down to having a style that suits your physical attributes and personality. I'm not a big guy: I have an athletic shape, but it's a lean one, and I'm far better at talking than I am at fighting! So for me, the best approach is to play to my advantage and keep the whole thing purely verbal. If I'm calm, controlled, and good natured, I can blow off anyone acting aggressive as going over the top and overreacting, and I can beat anyone playing the same game. Taking an aggressive stance means, while it may not lead to actualy physical blows, physical posturing is certainly more important, and a bigger guy would always win against me in a looming competition, or even just in looking more aggressive, and if I went aggressive and someone undercut me in the way I normally would react, I'd be caught effectively high and dry.

djchameleon · 03-01-2011, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoonlitSunshine

Hm. Interesting. I understand that you were just flirting, btw - I've only spent two months of the last 5 years single (two serious relationships) but in the current one, we live in different countries and also have the same attitude towards flirting, so it's allowed within the relationship so long as it's always playful :P We're both fairly big flirts, so we figured so long as we're in control and it stops before anyone gets any ideas, it's harmless!

Also understanding the cialis remark being a joke, however it'd be close enough to a jab defined as "Well Harsh" over here, basically meaning that you've overstepped the boundaries of a joke and that the subject of the jab is justified in taking the offended "and what exactly do you mean by that?" approach, and making you out to be the bad guy in the situation. Especially if he was only in his 50s, chances are he has plenty of life left, and would have shrugged something like that off like nothing :P

However, I guess a lot of it comes down to having a style that suits your physical attributes and personality. I'm not a big guy: I have an athletic shape, but it's a lean one, and I'm far better at talking than I am at fighting! So for me, the best approach is to play to my advantage and keep the whole thing purely verbal. If I'm calm, controlled, and good natured, I can blow off anyone acting aggressive as going over the top and overreacting, and I can beat anyone playing the same game. Taking an aggressive stance means, while it may not lead to actualy physical blows, physical posturing is certainly more important, and a bigger guy would always win against me in a looming competition, or even just in looking more aggressive, and if I went aggressive and someone undercut me in the way I normally would react, I'd be caught effectively high and dry.

If he got offended by my remark , I would clearly state that I'm joking an apologize right on the spot. She would have to respect me for owning up to my poor joke if he got offended.

I haven't really been in a serious fight all of my life. I'm a very smooth talker and usually talk my way out of situations even though I don't use the best tactics all the time. I do tend to joke a lot but I also know how to defuse a situation if I see it going down the wrong road. I'm a short stocky guy like I could be a linebacker or something but I don't know how I would fare in a fight. I know some judo but I haven't had a sparring partner in years so I may be rusty. Plus if it did turn into something physical. I wouldn't even try to win that fight if I was trying to impress the girl.

Some girls would rather you not be violent/show violent tendencies so I would lose on purpose. When I come out of it wounded/beaten up a bit. She will come to my aid and help me up and we will walk away from the situation. I will turn around and wink at the loser that beat me up because I'm leaving with the girl and he didn't see what happened.

Of course there are some girls that are on the other side of the spectrum and get turned on by a guy that can defend himself. They feel like if he can defend himself then he can defend me if something goes down and it turns into an issue of you being her protector and she gets turned on by that.

MoonlitSunshine · 03-01-2011, 05:08 AM

In my experience, every girl likes a guy who can defend himself, it's just that a lot of girls dislike a guy who abuses superior strength. So if you're going fists first into confrontations all the time, you'll probably be ignored by them, but if you win a fight in which you have clearly stated that you don't want to fight it, and without overly hurting the guy, then you'll probably benefit :P

As you said, there are millions of different ways to flirt, or get the girl, or whatever. A lot of those comments are directly aimed at you, I just thought I'd but my opinion out there seeing as it's likely to be at least slightly different.

PurpleWolf · 03-01-2011, 06:13 AM

Sometimes, if you ignore the person who insults you, its like sending a message back to them saying 'You aren't even worth my time getting worked up about this' and also shows that you are a lot more confident and comfortable with yourself than if you let his comments get to you.

djchameleon · 03-06-2011, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PurpleWolf

Sometimes, if you ignore the person who insults you, its like sending a message back to them saying 'You aren't even worth my time getting worked up about this' and also shows that you are a lot more confident and comfortable with yourself than if you let his comments get to you.

yeah, but also when you ignore them sometimes they think oh it's okay he doesn't really care so they will keep doing it and doing it to try to get under your skin and one day you'll have to put your foot down. That's how bullies work actually.

I'm going to put my money where my mouth is and become a PUA for the spring/summer. I'm not doing it for all the sex and possible gfs that I can get. I have all of this knowledge and I want to put it to work and conduct some social experiments.

My two wingmen will be helping me out. I have a friend named Trap and another one named Shield. So if I mention either one of those two names you know who I'm talking about.

I went to the mall with Trap two days ago and when we were leaving I came up with this idea for my first social experiment. I want to test out the whole myth about girls liking bad boys. They claim to want a nice guy but when they get one they are bored with him and disregard him. Or they really don't want a nice guy because he isn't exciting enough/doesn't create drama.

When I make these statements they are just generalizations and I KNOW they don't apply to all women. I'm testing this theory on a purely anecdotal platform.

Social Experiment # 1

The way this is going to work is that we are going to go to the mall. I'm going to pick three targets for Trap and he's going to do the same for me. We will try to spit our best negs without going over the line. Well I am. I think Trap is more radical in his thinking and he wants to try something different for a change. He's really going to push the limits of negs. He wants to get slapped pretty much. If he doesn't get slapped then it wasn't a successful test for him. I personally am not going to go that far.

So we are going to test out saying a neg and seeing the results/reactions we get. I study body language quite often so I will be looking for those signs while Trap is more into micro expressions of the face. I'm trying to teach him to also look at body signals as well.

I will post back in this thread when I return from the field and let you guys know the results.

MoonlitSunshine · 03-06-2011, 04:53 AM

I think perhaps you're going at this "bad guy" approach from the wrong angle...

From numerous conversations with girls about this, "bad guys" are (generally) more attractive for a number of reasons:

1) They're not an easy catch. They require effort to get their attention, you can't walk all over them, and they won't always do everything you want (In fact most of the time they'll do what they want and not what you want, but that leads me to the next bit).

2) They're generally a LOT more confident than "nice" guys, and will take command of situations. They're controlling, they offer a feeling of strong, dominant protection.

3) They're frustratingly Unknown. :P The stereotypical nice guy will open his heart and mind to a girl if she just asks. For a bad guy, it takes a lot more to get under their skin. Not knowing what's underneath is one of the greatest allures. Curiosity killed the cat after all :P

However, nowhere in there does it say "insult the hell out of them and see how they respond". If you're intent on trying this, be aloof, be difficult, be uncaring, but don't be insulting. That will just get you slapped, and unless you already have a ridiculous amount of charm, you're not gonna be able to pull that one off.

One final thing to note is that if you are trying to be anything but yourself, it will be noticeable, on some level. If you're inherently a nice guy, and you're trying to pull off a "bad guy" approach, I'd be willing to bet it's gonna fall through almost entirely. Going against your character never works as well as just being yourself, even if you're just trying to get laid :P

djchameleon · 03-06-2011, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoonlitSunshine

I think perhaps you're going at this "bad guy" approach from the wrong angle...

However, nowhere in there does it say "insult the hell out of them and see how they respond". If you're intent on trying this, be aloof, be difficult, be uncaring, but don't be insulting. That will just get you slapped, and unless you already have a ridiculous amount of charm, you're not gonna be able to pull that one off.

One final thing to note is that if you are trying to be anything but yourself, it will be noticeable, on some level. If you're inherently a nice guy, and you're trying to pull off a "bad guy" approach, I'd be willing to bet it's gonna fall through almost entirely. Going against your character never works as well as just being yourself, even if you're just trying to get laid :P

I did leave out part but the whole throwing the neg thing is just a light insult and then I'm going to walk away.

I know the main thing about "bad boys" is that they clearly ignore the girls that like/chase them but I wanted to try throwing out a neg and then walking away. I'm not sure if it will have the desired results i'm looking for but I'm going to try it anyways.

Or maybe We could flirt with a one liner then completely walk away. Not even finish up/follow through with bothering to get their number. Also as I said earlier. I'm not doing this to get laid. I want to see reactions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoonlitSunshine

One final thing to note is that if you are trying to be anything but yourself, it will be noticeable, on some level. If you're inherently a nice guy, and you're trying to pull off a "bad guy" approach, I'd be willing to bet it's gonna fall through almost entirely. Going against your character never works as well as just being yourself, even if you're just trying to get laid :P

Confident guys pull it off all the time. They pretend to be someone completely different than they are and say that have professions/jobs that they don't even have and get laid with those lies.

Also another thing, part of the whole bad boy image is being an asshole. If you treat some women badly and be an asshole to them they love you more and you can't avoid them so I'm also testing that theory/myth out as well. Assholes that are cocky/confident tend to get all the women while being a douche bag.

~~Sansa Stark~~ · 03-06-2011, 03:50 PM

MoonlitSunshine knows his shit,I approve

Arya Stark · 03-06-2011, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plum

moonlitsunshine knows his shit,i approve

[2]

03-01-2011, 04:47 AM	#52 (permalink)
MoonlitSunshine Dat's Der Bunny! Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Ireland Posts: 1,088	Hm. Interesting. I understand that you were just flirting, btw - I've only spent two months of the last 5 years single (two serious relationships) but in the current one, we live in different countries and also have the same attitude towards flirting, so it's allowed within the relationship so long as it's always playful :P We're both fairly big flirts, so we figured so long as we're in control and it stops before anyone gets any ideas, it's harmless! Also understanding the cialis remark being a joke, however it'd be close enough to a jab defined as "Well Harsh" over here, basically meaning that you've overstepped the boundaries of a joke and that the subject of the jab is justified in taking the offended "and what exactly do you mean by that?" approach, and making you out to be the bad guy in the situation. Especially if he was only in his 50s, chances are he has plenty of life left, and would have shrugged something like that off like nothing :P However, I guess a lot of it comes down to having a style that suits your physical attributes and personality. I'm not a big guy: I have an athletic shape, but it's a lean one, and I'm far better at talking than I am at fighting! So for me, the best approach is to play to my advantage and keep the whole thing purely verbal. If I'm calm, controlled, and good natured, I can blow off anyone acting aggressive as going over the top and overreacting, and I can beat anyone playing the same game. Taking an aggressive stance means, while it may not lead to actualy physical blows, physical posturing is certainly more important, and a bigger guy would always win against me in a looming competition, or even just in looking more aggressive, and if I went aggressive and someone undercut me in the way I normally would react, I'd be caught effectively high and dry. __________________ "I found it eventually, at the bottom of a locker in a disused laboratory, with a sign on the door saying "Beware of the Leopard". Ever thought of going into Advertising?" - Arthur Dent

03-01-2011, 05:08 AM	#54 (permalink)
MoonlitSunshine Dat's Der Bunny! Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Ireland Posts: 1,088	In my experience, every girl likes a guy who can defend himself, it's just that a lot of girls dislike a guy who abuses superior strength. So if you're going fists first into confrontations all the time, you'll probably be ignored by them, but if you win a fight in which you have clearly stated that you don't want to fight it, and without overly hurting the guy, then you'll probably benefit :P As you said, there are millions of different ways to flirt, or get the girl, or whatever. A lot of those comments are directly aimed at you, I just thought I'd but my opinion out there seeing as it's likely to be at least slightly different. __________________ "I found it eventually, at the bottom of a locker in a disused laboratory, with a sign on the door saying "Beware of the Leopard". Ever thought of going into Advertising?" - Arthur Dent

03-06-2011, 04:53 AM	#57 (permalink)
MoonlitSunshine Dat's Der Bunny! Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Ireland Posts: 1,088	I think perhaps you're going at this "bad guy" approach from the wrong angle... From numerous conversations with girls about this, "bad guys" are (generally) more attractive for a number of reasons: 1) They're not an easy catch. They require effort to get their attention, you can't walk all over them, and they won't always do everything you want (In fact most of the time they'll do what they want and not what you want, but that leads me to the next bit). 2) They're generally a LOT more confident than "nice" guys, and will take command of situations. They're controlling, they offer a feeling of strong, dominant protection. 3) They're frustratingly Unknown. :P The stereotypical nice guy will open his heart and mind to a girl if she just asks. For a bad guy, it takes a lot more to get under their skin. Not knowing what's underneath is one of the greatest allures. Curiosity killed the cat after all :P However, nowhere in there does it say "insult the hell out of them and see how they respond". If you're intent on trying this, be aloof, be difficult, be uncaring, but don't be insulting. That will just get you slapped, and unless you already have a ridiculous amount of charm, you're not gonna be able to pull that one off. One final thing to note is that if you are trying to be anything but yourself, it will be noticeable, on some level. If you're inherently a nice guy, and you're trying to pull off a "bad guy" approach, I'd be willing to bet it's gonna fall through almost entirely. Going against your character never works as well as just being yourself, even if you're just trying to get laid :P __________________ "I found it eventually, at the bottom of a locker in a disused laboratory, with a sign on the door saying "Beware of the Leopard". Ever thought of going into Advertising?" - Arthur Dent

03-01-2011, 06:13 AM	#55 (permalink)
PurpleWolf Groupie Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 44	Sometimes, if you ignore the person who insults you, its like sending a message back to them saying 'You aren't even worth my time getting worked up about this' and also shows that you are a lot more confident and comfortable with yourself than if you let his comments get to you.

03-06-2011, 03:50 PM	#59 (permalink)
~~Sansa Stark~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: The Eyrie, Vale of Arryn, Westeros Posts: 3,234	MoonlitSunshine knows his shit,I approve