Music Banter

Music Banter (https://www.musicbanter.com/)
-   The Lounge (https://www.musicbanter.com/lounge/)
-   -   The queer corner (https://www.musicbanter.com/lounge/92245-queer-corner.html)

jwb 12-04-2020 05:48 AM

What?

elphenor 12-04-2020 05:59 AM

when we talk about gender

it's a list of performative attributes

in nature men and women would often be indistinguishable to us...just very hairy androgeny

Marie Monday 12-04-2020 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 2147952)
a bunch of grunting Five Finger Death Punch listening White Claw drinking no book reading Joe Rogan watching white men(and their trad wives) are not ever gonna wake up and be allies of socialism

it's the biggest leftist LARP of the day

nah even Mao knew there had to be a cultural revolution first

Yeah I don't necessarily disagree, I was teasing about the fact that your comment just came out of nowhere

Marie Monday 12-04-2020 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 2147951)
I live in the US south so ye my perspective is different

the expected is straight out transphobia and aggressive adherence to traditional gender roles

tbh I want these people obliterated, like OH wants to burn churches

We definitely have different perspectives, I think in Holland the intolerance is less aggressive than in the south of the US, and more caustic below the surface (even though it can be pretty ****ing aggressive here too). I do think that even with many of the worst people it's still best to just stay mature and not descend to their level of hostility

jwb 12-06-2020 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 2147977)
when we talk about gender

it's a list of performative attributes

in nature men and women would often be indistinguishable to us...just very hairy androgeny

nah, they're pretty distinguishable lol. We're a sexually dimorphic species. Learn to biology.

elphenor 12-07-2020 02:59 AM

Biology...

unless you know what to look for it can be hard af to tell the difference between the sexes of plenty of species

humans really aren't that different

besides the obvious genitals there isn't a 100% physical difference really

men can be short, women can grow facial hair etc

OccultHawk 12-07-2020 04:26 AM

In the not so distant future reproduction through sexual fertilization and pregnancy will be obsolete. Not long after that people will probably stop using gender specific pronouns and even identifying as male or female. And like everything else people do that will be 100% biological because humans cannot escape biology. Even if we transfer our consciousness onto a microchip that microchip will be our biology.

The Batlord 12-07-2020 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 2148563)
Biology...

unless you know what to look for it can be hard af to tell the difference between the sexes of plenty of species

humans really aren't that different

besides the obvious genitals there isn't a 100% physical difference really

men can be short, women can grow facial hair etc

This and also painfully fake Hillary fandom coming from the guy who's obsessed with "girls".

elphenor 12-07-2020 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 2148565)
In the not so distant future reproduction through sexual fertilization and pregnancy will be obsolete. Not long after that people will probably stop using gender specific pronouns and even identifying as male or female. And like everything else people do that will be 100% biological because humans cannot escape biology. Even if we transfer our consciousness onto a microchip that microchip will be our biology.

the bolded is so meaningless that it's convinced me that some supernatural force guides you as no biological explanation could do as to why anyone would put together those combinations of keystrokes

elphenor 12-07-2020 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 2148579)
This and also painfully fake Hillary fandom coming from the guy who's obsessed with "girls".

is Hillary not a girl

OccultHawk 12-07-2020 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 2148583)
the bolded is so meaningless that it's convinced me that some supernatural force guides you as no biological explanation could do as to why anyone would put together those combinations of keystrokes

OK Casper

elphenor 12-07-2020 07:01 AM

no u

Quote:

Sociology is the discipline that attempts to understand the forces outside us that shape our lives, interests, and personalities. (Eitzen and Zinn, 2003:4)



KEY WORDS:

Discipline: Methods

Forces outside us: Society
Quote:

Sociology uses methods to study social forces that affect human behavior
http://www.unm.edu/~soc101/DEFINING%20SOCIOLOGY.htm

The Batlord 12-07-2020 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 2148584)
is Hillary not a girl

She is a woman.

elphenor 12-07-2020 09:36 AM

well I luvv women

which I guess is not queer

The Batlord 12-07-2020 10:06 AM

Is that why you love women? To not be queer?

OccultHawk 12-07-2020 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 2148588)

What’s happened outside your consciousness that you’re aware of?

Hint: The answer is nothing. You wouldn’t know about it if you weren’t aware of it therefore it has to be happening in your consciousness. No sociologist knows anything that’s outside of what they know and everything they know is a part of their consciousness and a person’s consciousness is made up of atoms arranged into neurons and synapses and other physical manifestations that all exist inside your body. Therefore, everything is biological. There’s no thought, emotion, idea, or understanding that you have or ever will have or ever can have that isn’t physical and biological.

jwb 12-07-2020 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 2148563)
Biology...

unless you know what to look for it can be hard af to tell the difference between the sexes of plenty of species

humans really aren't that different

besides the obvious genitals there isn't a 100% physical difference really

men can be short, women can grow facial hair etc

actually not all species are sexually dimorphic but humans are. That's the distinction you don't seem to get.

There are physiological differences beyond sex organs as well. Pointing to anomalies doesn't change that. There's a reason beyond social conditioning why men and women compete in separate sports leagues.

OccultHawk 12-07-2020 12:36 PM

Earthworms **** themselves and get pregnant.

The Batlord 12-07-2020 12:37 PM

You should give that a shot.

elphenor 12-07-2020 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb (Post 2148637)
actually not all species are sexually dimorphic but humans are. That's the distinction you don't seem to get.

There are physiological differences beyond sex organs as well. Pointing to anomalies doesn't change that. There's a reason beyond social conditioning why men and women compete in separate sports leagues.

Yet I shouldn't need to point out that plenty of women are much much more athletic than you or I

does that mean we're not men? are they not women?

nobody is denying that there are differences on average, but that's just it...it's averages and correlations

women can have broad shoulders, men can have squeaky voices and so on

jwb 12-08-2020 12:02 AM

Averages are all there ever are though. Once again pointing out anomalies is not a refutation of a trend.

elphenor 12-08-2020 12:03 AM

in this case it's the exception that disproves the rule

jwb 12-08-2020 12:17 AM

No it's not. Men and women are visibly distinguishable the vast majority of the time. In terms of physiological differences, the fact that some women are taller than some men or more athletic that some men is just a function of the fact that there's also a spectrum within each sex based on these categories... So the high end of the female spectrum overlaps with the low end of the male spectrum.

elphenor 12-08-2020 12:30 AM

90s media taught me all it takes is a slender build and long blonde hair on a guy for an awkward transphobia bit to occur

elphenor 12-08-2020 12:39 AM

Men are tall, except when they're short

Men have short hair, except when it's long

Men grow beards, except when they can't

Men have deep voices, except when they don't

Men are sexually attracted to women, except when they're gay

Men are strong, except when they're weak

jwb 12-08-2020 01:21 AM

Humans are smart, except when they have an extra chromosome

Elph is in extra chromosome mode

elphenor 12-08-2020 04:33 AM

I admire how confident you can be while having an Adam and Eve level understanding at least

Marie Monday 12-08-2020 06:45 AM

Isn't sexually dimorphic that there are discrete differences instead of a continuous scale, like the colour of ducks? That doesn't apply to humans, apart from sexual organs.
I don't see what the point is though. What does it matter whether male and female sex are distinguishable or not?
Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 2148710)
90s media taught me all it takes is a slender build and long blonde hair on a guy for an awkward transphobia bit to occur

Well of course. I'm a cis girl but its not like that has ever mattered to anyone who is intending to discriminate. What point is that supposed to prove though, it just means that the hostility depends on how people perceive you instead of who you are, and it sets in as soon as you don't conform to gender norms.

elphenor 12-08-2020 07:27 AM

it's a joke stemming from the trope of guys checking out some sweet ass but then it turns out it's a dude and they're like oh no I'm gay

my only point in mentioning how much more androgynous we'd all look in nature is that gender, the thing we all actually talk about as in he/she/they is performative

all of us have seen people in the present where you can't sight guess their sex, because they aren't taking measures to signify "I'm a male" or "I'm a female"

OccultHawk 12-08-2020 07:41 AM

Quote:

we'd all look in nature
As opposed to where?

jwb 12-08-2020 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marie Monday (Post 2148732)
Isn't sexually dimorphic that there are discrete differences instead of a continuous scale, like the colour of ducks? That doesn't apply to humans, apart from sexual organs.
I don't see what the point is though. What does it matter whether male and female sex are distinguishable or not?

not necessarily. All it means is this:

distinct difference in size or appearance between the sexes of an animal in addition to difference between the sexual organs themselves.

Some instances of sexual dimorphism are more obvious than others but there are often scales within the sexes of sexually dimorphic species. Male lions are bigger on average than female lions but also some m male lions are bigger than other males and the same with females. Birds with distinct color patterns in the males can vary from male to male etc.

As for whether it applies to humans, we have lower levels of sexual dimorphism compared to some other species but still pronounced enough to be both recognizable and relevant:

Quote:

Sexual dimorphism refers to differences in size and shape between females and males of the same species. The term sexual dimorphism is usually used only for the secondary sexual characteristics, which are unrelated to reproduction. Some examples of sexual dimorphism include differences in stature, weight, morphology of the face, cognitive development, mortality, and disease prevalence. Although humans exhibit low levels of sexual dimorphism compared to other animals, differences between females and males are numerous. Evolutionary, sexually dimorphic traits develop through the process of sexual selection. Furthermore, mating system, body size, gender roles, and quality of environment also play an important role in determining the levels of sexual dimorphism. Sexual dimorphism has an important place in biological anthropology. In bioarchaeology and forensic anthropology, morphological and metric traits are used to estimate sex of the skeletal remains, while in studies of human evolution the level of sexual dimorphism is used to reconstruct social behavior. Generally, the majority of studies tend to focus on adults, because sexual dimorphism is not well pronounced before puberty.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...same%20species.

Marie Monday 12-08-2020 10:55 AM

Oh sure in that case it's fair to say humans are dimorphic

elphenor 12-08-2020 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 2148740)
As opposed to where?

society?

jwb 12-09-2020 03:38 AM

Which exists outside of nature apparently

Are beehives and ant colonies unnatural? Cause they cooperate on a level we could hardly dream of.

Psy-Fi 12-09-2020 06:59 AM

India's rape laws don't cover transgender people

elphenor 12-09-2020 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb (Post 2148936)
Which exists outside of nature apparently

Are beehives and ant colonies unnatural? Cause they cooperate on a level we could hardly dream of.

there you go with ants again

jwb 12-09-2020 11:30 AM

lol I also said bees

It's true though. Social organization is part of nature.

elphenor 12-09-2020 11:31 AM

we're like lobsters you know

jwb 12-09-2020 11:35 AM

Nah lobsters weren't made in the image of god like apparently you think humans were.

elphenor 12-09-2020 11:36 AM

the idea of nature vs. society is going to be essential in any political science, sociology, or history course that covers the enlightenment...it doesn't get more fundamental

Rousseau, Hobbes, Locke, Rawls, Nozick etc etc etc

the backbone of what they talk about is going to be the idea of The Natural State of Man vs. The Social State of Man


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:26 PM.


© 2003-2023 Advameg, Inc.