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Old 08-29-2018, 06:51 PM   #121 (permalink)
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To hold a series of algorithms responsible for anything is nonsense but there's no current alternative.
What would you do if your computer caught on fire?

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To simplify the conversation and to avoid having to go into every useless caveat I'll just say no.

Since we have no control over even the tiniest of our actions we are obviously bound to a predetermined fate. It was settled and soon as the Big Bang started the universe expanding. Obviously. Unless you think we are of some supernatural property from outside the universe.
If "we" are our brains, then "we" are the ones controlling our actions. Also, predetermined is not synonymous with predictable.
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Old 08-29-2018, 07:00 PM   #122 (permalink)
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there's the theory that consciousness is more a spin off of a highly functioning brain, rather than the gears actually being in manual

I put this question in the "I dunno" category

regardless I don't really believe in criminal justice as retribution or punishment for bad decisions as too many outside influences effect those decisions, putting people behind bars is something we should avoid except in cases where we have no other options, rehabilitation should be the primary goal etc
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Old 08-29-2018, 07:08 PM   #123 (permalink)
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Yeah. I think I remember you understood this when we discussed it before iirc

That’s pleasing to me because it’s so in your face obvious but still so few people seem to get it.
I'm not convinced that because something has a beginning the end is predetermined

I'm not against the idea, I just don't see where the absolute assurance is coming from

what tells you that moment to moment there aren't dice rolls going on
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Old 08-29-2018, 07:11 PM   #124 (permalink)
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What would you do if your computer caught on fire?
If a computer is on fire you put it out and then either fix it or discard it. But you don't claim that the computer was morally wrong.

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If "we" are our brains, then "we" are the ones controlling our actions. Also, predetermined is not synonymous with predictable.
For me to call it freewill you'd have to be able to rewind from a cause and effect to before the cause and find just one instance where the event happened differently. Let's take you walking down the street and you stub your toe, shout "****!", and hop up and down on the other foot three times. Now we replay the incident one billion times to see if you shout "****!" or hop up and down four times or step differently so that you don't stub your toe at all. If that never happens and you do the same exact thing over and over and over then does it make sense to say that you have freewill?
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Old 08-29-2018, 07:12 PM   #125 (permalink)
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I'm not convinced that because something has a beginning the end is predetermined

I'm not against the idea, I just don't see where the absolute assurance is coming from

what tells you that moment to moment there aren't dice rolls going on
Even a dice roll is predetermined based on how it's thrown, the weight of the dice, what they're landing on, etc.
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Old 08-29-2018, 07:13 PM   #126 (permalink)
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and who's to say that it wouldn't play out differently
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Old 08-29-2018, 07:15 PM   #127 (permalink)
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What? Morality isn't worth discussing until it's illegal?
No, I'm just not interested in the conversation.. and if you ask some of our members morality is subjective (aka a useless tool) so all the rapist has to think is that its okay and therefore moral tada.

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Even a dice roll is predetermined based on how it's thrown, the weight of the dice, what they're landing on, etc.
You can calculate those things all you want until an outside force not accounted for comes in and ****s on your lame definition of predetermined. Are gummy bears with 2 heads predetermined?
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Old 08-29-2018, 07:16 PM   #128 (permalink)
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Even a dice roll is predetermined based on how it's thrown, the weight of the dice, what they're landing on, etc.
metaphor
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Old 08-29-2018, 07:16 PM   #129 (permalink)
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rehabilitation should be the primary goal etc
rehabilitation makes us more subservient to the state than torturous public executions ever did

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If "we" are our brains, then "we" are the ones controlling our actions. Also, predetermined is not synonymous with predictable.
Brains don’t control themselves any more than rocks do and uh yeah I know what those words mean

No offense man but you’re not ready

You seem to want a discussion but what you need is a lecture or a book

Something where you can’t respond

I know that sounds rude but that’s where you’re at on this
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Old 08-29-2018, 07:19 PM   #130 (permalink)
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rehabilitation makes us more subservient to the state than torturous public executions ever did
we have examples of countries that practice rehabilitation first and they're not "more subservient", their governments are held to a higher standard of accountability in comparison
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