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View Poll Results: Choose.
Trout Mask Replica (1969) 26 47.27%
The Velvet Underground & Nico (1967) 29 52.73%
Voters: 55. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-02-2017, 04:32 AM   #241 (permalink)
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I would not call Slayer "old rock"
You do realize you've already used the phrase more than I have. I said it precisely twice. First as a boiled down way of saying that I expected the album to fall into an era and genre category, the combination of which typically isn't my bag. Second just to poke at you since the phrase seemed to rile you up. I assumed you would see that I was joking.

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I'm not butthurt he doesn't like I'm butthurt that he ****ing sucks at talking about music
That's an interesting statement, since almost none of the discussion so far has been about music. It's been me making the argument that one has to make decisions about what to give a chance since one can't give everything a chance, while Frownlands argument was that he saw the VU album as being unique enough that I should try anyway - despite my past experiences with rock music.

Or old rock music, if you will. As in rock music from the 50's, 60's and 70's.

I'm not actually interested in building on this antagonistic thing you're doing. It's fine, I don't mind, but don't expect me to throw any mud back.

Last edited by MicShazam; 11-02-2017 at 04:39 AM.
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Old 11-02-2017, 06:45 AM   #242 (permalink)
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Well this thread has become almost as entertaining as the Jordan Rivers thread

Okay, first of all, if you're going to discover Velvet Underground, I would recommend not starting with White Light/White Heat. It was the first album I heard from them and I wasn't all that impressed either. It is easily the weakest of VU's four albums with Lou Reed (I haven't heard Squeeze but I heard that was universally panned).

Anyhow why should it matter whether somebody doesn't like what you like or not? I'm not going to diss Batlord's death metal records because, frankly, I'm not into death metal and you really shouldn't attack something you didn't hear (though I suspect Gorguts is way better than Motley Crue ).

Anyhow, If Mic doesn't like VU, so what? What are you going to do, sentence him to Alcatraz on a diet of bread and water? Just like Elph doesn't have to like 'old rock' whatever that means.

But if anyone dares diss the Beatles, I'm coming after them with my superpowered machine gun


1. WLWH is their best album actually miss me with that plebtastic opinion

2. It wasn't about someone not liking something I thought you said you read the thread

3. Idk man The Beatles are Old Rock why bother because random metal album
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Old 11-02-2017, 06:54 AM   #243 (permalink)
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Or old rock music, if you will. As in rock music from the 50's, 60's and 70's.
But not the 80's 90's or 00's ?

what year precisely do albums become old rock 1979?
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Old 11-02-2017, 07:11 AM   #244 (permalink)
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But not the 80's 90's or 00's ?

what year precisely do albums become old rock 1979?
You know how when people speak to each other, they often simplify language and speak in broad statements? I wasn't wrtiting a treatise on the subject and I don't have a definition.
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Old 11-02-2017, 08:02 AM   #245 (permalink)
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Hey. elphenor


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Old 11-02-2017, 08:12 AM   #246 (permalink)
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1. WLWH is their best album actually miss me with that plebtastic opinion
Sister Ray is clearly the best thing that they've ever done (not counting Loop, which I consider a John Cale track), but WLWH as an album is second to the debut.
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Old 11-02-2017, 11:04 AM   #247 (permalink)
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I don't have a definition.
well exactly
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Old 11-02-2017, 11:05 AM   #248 (permalink)
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Sister Ray is clearly the best thing that they've ever done (not counting Loop, which I consider a John Cale track), but WLWH as an album is second to the debut.
Maybe if Lady GODhiva wasn't a thing
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Old 11-02-2017, 03:33 PM   #249 (permalink)
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Allright, here we go. I do not want to hear any butthurt complaints about how I "just don't get it". I agreed to give the whole damn thing a spin, even though I already told you all that it's probably not going to be my thing.
So what are you going to say? That I failed to appreciate it? No ****!
That's what was obviously in the cards to begin with, so... Just saying.

Anyway, while I was listening through this album, I took a bunch of notes.

The original idea was to write it up into a full piece, but that would take a lot of time and my notes are fairly cohesive and readable, so I'll be a lazy ******* and just post my notes for each song, and then I'll write some closing thoughts.

PS: There's some weird word-wrapping because I wrote most of this in a tiny TXT window. That's why the notes below look like poorly formatted poems.

Sunday Morning
French pop. Françoise Hardy.
Weak vocals. Nico seemed stronger on her debut album.
Just sort of ends.
I'm Waiting for the Man
Lou Reed doing his thing. Repetitive.
Feels like 50's rock through a late 60's filter.
Honestly really bad. The distorted rhythm guitars
sounds like crap.
Femme Fatale
Nico again. So far it feels like we're simply
ping-ponging between a nico album and a VU album.
Her vocals are pretty ****ing weak here.
Takes on a sort of 50's pop group feel with those
harmonized background vocals. You can really hear
how poorly recorded the music is here. Audible
distortion of microphones.
Venus in Furs
Raga drones. Lou Reed again. His vocal inflections
do not appeal to me at all. He's just a crap singer,
although what he's doing probably should be measured
by a different standard. The chorus sounds like
bad karaoke. I just realize how much Reed sometimes
reminds me of Danish singer Kim Larsen - who I also
do not like at all. The violin later gets a bit
more interesting, but overall, I find this pretty
dull to sit through. If isolated, there's a few
seconds of honestly really good violin here.
Run Run Run
More with one leg placed in the 50's. Partially
bluesy vocals, but overall quite rock'n'roll in
style, musically speaking. This places itself quite
firmly in "rock music I do not care for" territory.
I know rock music like this isn't supposed to be
all that intricate, but this really did end up
feeling like a pretty half-assed arrangement.
Especially that solo late in the song. I said I
would be honest so... This song is crap,
essentially.
All Tomorrow's Parties
Immediately I'm thinking the Doors. Then I'm
noticing the horrible recording quality. Is this a
bad Youtube upload? I think it might actually be so.
Nico's vocals... I don't know... her accent is
strikingly unflattering. "Aaaahhhll tomaarrohws
paadiiiz". This is the third song to drone on pretty
repetitively like this. The harmony first in the
verse works well, so that's something.
Dull, aimless lead guitar playing.
Heroin
I ****ing hate Lou Reed as a singer/vocalist. I'd gladly
read a poetry book written by the man, but his vocal
approach does about as much for me as that of Fred Durst.
He has this really annoying tick of ending his lines in this
weird, drawn out way that sounds nothing like speech.
Someone like Leonard Cohen or Suzanne Vega does this sort of
half-talking/half-singing vocal much, much better.
Droning violins again. Simple, looping guitar arrangement.
This song is a bit long. JUST SAYING.
The best part was where they raped the violin. I just realize
how close this is to some parts of Lulu (an album which I actually
listened to all the way through at least three times).
There She Goes Again
More 50's feeling rock with harmonized backing vocals. Puh-leez.
Nothing to say here. It's bog standard template music.
I'll Be Your Mirror
It's quieter, so Nico time again, I guess? Yes... There we go.
Not into her vocal style. She's like a French pop singer without
the charm. Something like a big chorus starts happening, but we
quickly fade out over it. Huh... Well, that was that song.
The Black Angel's Death Song
Bit more interesting sounding music here, but of course it's
repetitive enough that all impact is lost after a while.
So many flashbacks to Lulu, seriously. I guess this is Lou Reed
territory then, stylistically speaking. Lou Reed's vocals... there's some vague
attempt at staying on the flow and tempo of the song, but
it sounds pretty clumsy in practise.
Is he just making **** up near the end of this song?
Probably.
European Son
50's rock'n'roll. First time I'm noticing a bass guitar.
Groaning metal! Smashed glass! Sudden guitar in the left
speaker that is curiously much louder mixed than the other
instruments. Intentional or not, my overall impression thus
far has frankly been that of a very poorly mastered record.
Amplifier feedback, rumbling, distorted bass. I'm surprised
they waited this long to go full Sonic Youth. Quite a long
song, but at least there's something actually going on.
Quite a few changes in texture and instrumentation so far.
Still two whole minutes to go and this is starting to get
just a LITTLE old. Nothing can convince me there's much
thought behind this arrangement. It's fine though. I just
don't think it sounds neither good, nor interesting.

In summation:
I sat through the entire album with no skipping ahead. I gave it my undivided attention. That's about all you can ask of me.
I'd say that yes, the album is in fact somewhat varied. I'd argue it leaned on 50's rock of varying stripes more than anything, but there were nods to blues, some outright French-style pop balladry, some folk and/or folk-rock, some drones, plus a bit of Sonic Youth esque noise and a hint of modern classical violin if you count the backing track to a couple otherwise straight forward songs.

I still feel like the vast majority of the album was pretty firmly within what I would have expected to hear. In that sense it wasn't really worth the try. I didn't expect to like it, and I don't like it. I'm not going to say I told you so (but I did).

I'm aware that it might seem like I'm trashing this album in bad faith, but it really just is a question of the sensibilites behind this album project being a pretty huge mismatch with my personal preferences.

I'd even say that the stylistic aspects of the album that placed themselves the closest to thing I appreciate are pretty heavily outgunned by various other artists.
The Nico led ballads? I'd rather listen to Françoise Hardy or Jane Birkin. The folk numbers? Give me Vashti Bunyan or any number of 60's folk-rock bands that I've just begun looking into recently. The band "Trees", for example.Talk-singing about people and places? Give me Vega or Cohen or Dylan. Raw, abrasive rock music? PJ Harvey.

Note that I have a certain approach to music when it comes to really any album, including influential, important albums. I try my best to listen to an album outside of it's original context. This is opposite of what many would say one should do. In my view, all music should be appreciated for what it is. At face value. All equal with past accomplishments and accolades erased. Essentially, I listened to this album as if it came out yesterday.
Seen that way, it's hard for me to take it as anything other than a poorly produced, limply performed and pretty dull - if somewhat ecclectic - album of lo-fi rock. Unique? As far as I can see, yes, quite possibly, but that's when taken as a whole. Every individual song struck me as very, very familiar in terms of musical style.

Further thoughts:
I do wonder what this album means to you people on here who will disagree with me the most. When did you listen to it first? You personal history with it, what is so great about it, what it gives you that is yet unmatched by other artists. I'm especially interested in hearing this from Frownland, The Batlord and also you, Elphenor.

A stray thought that hit me, given how Frownland was the main advocate for the album here, is how clearly my musical sensibilites and his musical sensibilities are expressed through the ****ty music we write. You barely need words to explain how different our respective outlooks on music is. You can hear it clear as day.

Questions:
Am I the only who thinks the album sounds really poorly recorded/mastered, or am I just the only one who cares?
Am I the only one who thinks Nico is really slumming it here? I've heard her debut album. She was better there.

Last edited by MicShazam; 11-02-2017 at 03:50 PM.
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Old 11-02-2017, 03:41 PM   #250 (permalink)
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Nico' s only contribution to Sunday Morning is backing vocals

Femme Fatale is a Reed song

Nico is just a guest by the discretion of Warhol on everything but All Tomorrow's party which is the most full band contribution

yes the production is basically trashcan and you are weirdly naive about it kinda cute
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Last edited by elphenor; 11-02-2017 at 03:50 PM.
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