Physical discipline against children .. okay or not?

Terrible Lizard · 08-09-2009, 02:03 AM

My Dad beat my ass a couple of times when I was a sprout. And look how well I turned out!

But seriously it's up to the parent, and that isn't going to change in any reasonable world. There is no perfect way to raise a little bum****, so you adapt in accordance with the squirt's behavior.

Simple as that.

crash_override · 08-09-2009, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lateralus

You leave the kid be and let them learn for themselves what happens when they do something wrong. Hitting just isn't necessary!

What happens when they run away from home because they are tired of being treated like a prisoner of all your time-outs and groundings, and don't fear you enough to stay in lieu of physical punishment? Believe me it will happen. What kind of values are you instilling in this child? Will they ever grow up to respect their elders? Or just grow up to move away from a family they wish they never had? Basically what I'm saying is to re-evaluate your childhood and ask yourself, did you respect your parents? or just figure out new ways to fool them?

Quote:

Kids standing up for themselves, fine. Kids bullying other kids via physical violence is not fine. And countless studies have shown that children who are disciplined physically are more likely to use violence at school, usually NOT for merely standing up for themselves. Their parents teach them that in order to obey they need to be hit. So children believe that if they want another child to do something or act in a certain way than they must be hit.

Throw your staistics at what you will, but how cool is your kid going to look with a black eye sitting outside the princples office after he got beat up? All the bullies say he started the fight, he gets suspended and gets laughed at because he had to call his mommy in to fight his fight? You're going to let him supress that? Good luck.

Quote:

Out of curiosity, why would you think it's okay for you and your relatives to physically discipline your child but not a teacher who is a trained professional in disciplining and teaching children? If you think physical discipline is okay, wouldn't you condone teachers using it? Or would you like any other parents simply use physical harm as a means of controlling your children?

Because a teacher who doesn't give two ****s about a kid is much more likely to snap on a child than a relative, I mean how many teachers are ever convicted when they have a school district behind them? I don't trust American schools as far as I can get close to them with drugs and alcohol.

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Teachers don't use physical discipline on children anymore because they are trained in the field and it is a known fact that physical discipline is ineffective and detrimental. Shouldn't that say something?

No. Teachers are mostly insecure bastards who are taking out their own anger on their children and that is why they should be more closely monitored.

Quote:

I've worked with many, many children and I've never come across one child who needs to learn something through physical discipline. If your child hasn't responded to your form of discipline than obviously you haven't executed it properly or used the right technique.

Are any of them yours? If not then congradulate yourself, because you would have no right to use physical discipline against them in the first place.

Quote:

I'd also just like to say that research has also shown that most parents who use physical discipline do not use it as a systematic disciplining technique. It is usually an act that takes place when they lose their temper or become frustrated that nothing is working.

Now you're talking domestic abuse stats again, which. I HAVE STATED MANY TIMES! ARE NOT RELEVANT IN THIS ARGUMENT!!! I DO NOT ADVOCATE ANY KIND OF PHYSICAL ABUSE IN THIS THREAD!!! AND WILL NOT HAVE MY POINTS SUBJECT TO ANY OF THEIR STATS.

If you want to raise your kid to be clueless of what the real world is all about, go ahead. It will give my kid a head start, and in this competitive economy, I'm sure he could use the edge. Happy time outs to you.

Astronomer · 08-09-2009, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crash_override

Because a teacher who doesn't give two ****s about a kid is much more likely to snap on a child than a relative, I mean how many teachers are ever convicted when they have a school district behind them? I don't trust American schools as far as I can get close to them with drugs and alcohol.

No. Teachers are mostly insecure bastards who are taking out their own anger on their children and that is why they should be more closely monitored.

Well thanks a lot because I am a student teacher and I am definitely not an insecure bastard who is taking my anger out on children and I AM closely monitored. I am a teacher because I am passionate about working with young people and I have worked hard at university for years in the profession, not to mention gone through rigorous police checks/ personality checks/ violence checks. I can't speak for the US but teachers here do not 'snap' because we are trained to handle these situations. We do 'give two shits' about the children we are teaching because we've gone into the profession to work with children because we enjoy it. Any teacher here who shows the least bit of violence or physical abuse towards children is immediately removed from the education system entirely never to be able to regain a job in the field.

I am seriously offended to hear you say that about teachers because it is an incredibly hard job and every single teacher I know works their ass off and would never, ever have that such attitude towards students and education in general. People like you make me wonder why I ever bothered to work so hard at this job when I'm just labelled as an 'insecure bastard' who takes 'their anger out on children.'

I am highly against teachers physically disciplining children (obviously), I just wanted to know why, if you think teaching kids about the 'real world' involves physical discipline, why you believed only the parents should be able to do it. I just didn't understand why if you believed teaching kids involved a physical element why you wouldn't let teachers do it since they are the primary educators. In fact you didn't even answer that question but instead just tore into the teaching profession and made terrible assumptions about what we do.

Plus how is physical discipline emulating the real world anyway? You don't get smacked when you do something wrong at work. You don't get hit if you don't pay a bill on time. You don't even get physically disciplined by police officers for breaking the law (at least not here anyway.)

Look, if you are living in such a violent world where you NEED to teach your kids what physical discipline is for them to be able to cope in life, then fine! But where I come from it definitely isn't necessary. I wasn't physically disciplined as a child, and I've never come across physical discipline as something I have needed to know in order to 'survive' in the real world. I've got on perfectly fine, and so have pretty much every single other person I know. This is why I have formed this opinion. If your experience is different than so be it. Like I said, I can only speak for the world I am familiar with. If where you come from you need to know violence in order to cope with real life then do what you must.

And I really don't appreciate all that derogatory stuff you said about teachers.

By the way, do you have children? Because until you have a child you will never really understand what parenthood is actually like. And yes I've had a child.

Son of JayJamJah · 08-09-2009, 09:46 AM

This is out of control:

Crash I'm not going to discuss this with you anymore, you are incredibly ignorant, almost everyone of your points is way or base or hypocritical, you should apologize to Lat for your comments on teachers, as a former teacher myself I can't believe how far off you are on what and why most of them teach.

Here's all I'll say to show you just how absurd your claims are: If teachers can be trusted to discipline children in schools where their job is on the stake, how come they can discipline their own children at home?

I recommend saving everything you've written in this conversation and reevaluating it in 5-10 years when you grow up and if you don't see how ridiculous what your saying is then, kill yourself.

FETCHER. · 08-09-2009, 10:48 AM

i was smacked as a child, never beaten.
only if i was really cheeky or had done somethin bad n i knew it was bad to do it, it never happend often as im the youngest so my mum&dad were much more relaxed.
i dont think its affected me, cos i knew if i done that again i would get a smack, so i wouldnt do it

Double X · 08-09-2009, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Throw your staistics at what you will, but how cool is your kid going to look with a black eye sitting outside the princples office after he got beat up? All the bullies say he started the fight, he gets suspended and gets laughed at because he had to call his mommy in to fight his fight? You're going to let him supress that? Good luck.

Is your goal to make your child a 'cool' kid, or a thoughtful and respectful one?

Physical discipline only proves that force proves you are right. That they must respect because you are stronger. Is that what you want to teach your kids? Using force to prove your point will only encourage kids to do the same. It doesn't promote logic or understanding.

I agree with everything lateralus/others said, physical discipline is entirely useless when raising a child. I know its an isolated example, but my parents never physically disciplined me once. My parents never had to, and I ended up okay (I think).

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayJamJah

I recommend saving everything you've written in this conversation and reevaluating it in 5-10 years when you grow up and if you don't see how ridiculous what your saying is then, kill yourself.

ouch...

Urban Hat€monger ? · 08-09-2009, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double X

Physical discipline only proves that force proves you are right. That they must respect because you are stronger. Is that what you want to teach your kids? Using force to prove your point will only encourage kids to do the same. It doesn't promote logic or understanding.

I'd rather have kids having respect for their parents for that reason than having none at all to be honest.

Son of JayJamJah · 08-09-2009, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hatemonger

I'd rather have kids having respect for their parents for that reason than having none at all to be honest.

And I'd rather have a broken leg then be paralyzed, thankfully those aren't the only two options.

Hesher · 08-09-2009, 03:09 PM

I respected and still respect my parents because I admire them and because they are proud of me; I feel guilty letting them down by doing things they disapprove of, at least while I lived under their care. My parents instilled in me a sense of morality and I did what I was told not because I was afraid of physical violence but because I knew my parents were the authority and there were other ways of punishing me that didn't involve violence. For everyone who hits their kids, what will you do in ten years when that kid is taller and stronger than you? If violence is the only thing making them respect you, what will happen when they can beat you?

When I was maybe 15 or 16 my parents and I had an argument which got so heated that I began making physical threats, and seeing as how I was the same height as my father, they could have had an impact if I'd gone through with it. But I saw my parents eyes looking at me with actual, serious fear, and have never felt more guilt and shame in my life.

crash_override · 08-09-2009, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lateralus

Well thanks a lot because I am a student teacher and I am definitely not an insecure bastard who is taking my anger out on children and I AM closely monitored. I am a teacher because I am passionate about working with young people and I have worked hard at university for years in the profession, not to mention gone through rigorous police checks/ personality checks/ violence checks. I can't speak for the US but teachers here do not 'snap' because we are trained to handle these situations. We do 'give two shits' about the children we are teaching because we've gone into the profession to work with children because we enjoy it. Any teacher here who shows the least bit of violence or physical abuse towards children is immediately removed from the education system entirely never to be able to regain a job in the field.

I am seriously offended to hear you say that about teachers because it is an incredibly hard job and every single teacher I know works their ass off and would never, ever have that such attitude towards students and education in general. People like you make me wonder why I ever bothered to work so hard at this job when I'm just labelled as an 'insecure bastard' who takes 'their anger out on children.'

I am highly against teachers physically disciplining children (obviously), I just wanted to know why, if you think teaching kids about the 'real world' involves physical discipline, why you believed only the parents should be able to do it. I just didn't understand why if you believed teaching kids involved a physical element why you wouldn't let teachers do it since they are the primary educators. In fact you didn't even answer that question but instead just tore into the teaching profession and made terrible assumptions about what we do.

Plus how is physical discipline emulating the real world anyway? You don't get smacked when you do something wrong at work. You don't get hit if you don't pay a bill on time. You don't even get physically disciplined by police officers for breaking the law (at least not here anyway.)

Look, if you are living in such a violent world where you NEED to teach your kids what physical discipline is for them to be able to cope in life, then fine! But where I come from it definitely isn't necessary. I wasn't physically disciplined as a child, and I've never come across physical discipline as something I have needed to know in order to 'survive' in the real world. I've got on perfectly fine, and so have pretty much every single other person I know. This is why I have formed this opinion. If your experience is different than so be it. Like I said, I can only speak for the world I am familiar with. If where you come from you need to know violence in order to cope with real life then do what you must.

And I really don't appreciate all that derogatory stuff you said about teachers.

By the way, do you have children? Because until you have a child you will never really understand what parenthood is actually like. And yes I've had a child.

I guess this is what happens when people take posts both way too literally and personally. I apologize if you felt grouped into the teachers comment, I would like to elaborate by saying that it would foolish of me to believe this is the case with all figures in todays educational fieldand it was most defiantely foolish of me to post in the first place. Consider this a sincere apology for not choosing my words more carefully. Also let it be known that I am not here to change anyone's way of thinking, merely defending my own where it was attacked much closer to the op.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayJamJah

This is out of control:

Crash I'm not going to discuss this with you anymore, you are incredibly ignorant, almost everyone of your points is way or base or hypocritical, you should apologize to Lat for your comments on teachers, as a former teacher myself I can't believe how far off you are on what and why most of them teach.

Here's all I'll say to show you just how absurd your claims are: If teachers can be trusted to discipline children in schools where their job is on the stake, how come they can discipline their own children at home?

I recommend saving everything you've written in this conversation and reevaluating it in 5-10 years when you grow up and if you don't see how ridiculous what your saying is then, kill yourself.

What makes these sort of comments necessary? Believe it or not, I have a lot of respect for you and your point of view on most things JJJ. For the record, I thought you to be a lot more level headed than this, and again I apologize if you took anything I've said too literal or personal. Consider the argument over. I feel I have made my point very clear and it has obviously been received with burning torches. I only hope that my point of view will receive the same open eyes and open minds that I have given yours someday.

p.s. Your snapping and attacking comments in the same post in which you inform us of your teaching experience, does support my argument. I certainly hope those aren't the sort of things you would say to student who questioned something you had taught. Also, please accept my apology for the original teachers comment, I would love to think I was completely wrong in everything that was said in that comment. That is one point in which I would embrace being proven wrong.

View Poll Results: Physical punishment aganist children. Acceptable or Unacceptable?
Acceptable	50	56.82%
Unacceptable	38	43.18%
Voters: 88. You may not vote on this poll

08-09-2009, 02:03 AM	#291 (permalink)
Terrible Lizard **ER OF HOLES Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Butt**, Nebraska Posts: 1,211	My Dad beat my ass a couple of times when I was a sprout. And look how well I turned out! But seriously it's up to the parent, and that isn't going to change in any reasonable world. There is no perfect way to raise a little bum****, so you adapt in accordance with the squirt's behavior. Simple as that. __________________ “YOU ARE SCUM SLUT.” -John Martyn

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08-09-2009, 03:09 PM	#299 (permalink)
Hesher Palm Muted Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 168	I respected and still respect my parents because I admire them and because they are proud of me; I feel guilty letting them down by doing things they disapprove of, at least while I lived under their care. My parents instilled in me a sense of morality and I did what I was told not because I was afraid of physical violence but because I knew my parents were the authority and there were other ways of punishing me that didn't involve violence. For everyone who hits their kids, what will you do in ten years when that kid is taller and stronger than you? If violence is the only thing making them respect you, what will happen when they can beat you? When I was maybe 15 or 16 my parents and I had an argument which got so heated that I began making physical threats, and seeing as how I was the same height as my father, they could have had an impact if I'd gone through with it. But I saw my parents eyes looking at me with actual, serious fear, and have never felt more guilt and shame in my life.