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Old 03-24-2006, 04:47 PM   #491 (permalink)
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Sometimes I hate this forum. I had a huge response I wrote and then I had to sign in and then it erased my post. Pissed off. In summary.

Right Track. Was goofing around with you, get off the defensive.

Emo. Started in Washington DC. Americans definitely do emo and indie-emo better.
Husker Du.
Sonic Youth.
The Pixies.
Rites of Spring (considered to be the founders of emo)
Embrace.
JSBX.
Weezer (who had Pinkerton - the quintessential emo album of the 90's)
were a few of the bands mentioned.

Ska. The only time the UK had the Americans trumped in Ska was in the Second Wave of Ska, commonly called Two-Tone. We had ska before you did and thats the only reason the UK had something to build off of. Case and point - the Skatalites(this is the first wave existant in our Cajun region). Third Wave ska is completely dominated by our West Coast ska bands and further strengthened by the few greats coming from the East Coast.

Techno (and all of the other electronic sub genres you mentioned. Girlband pop is not a real genre so) Was invented in Detroit, Michigan - and existed about 10 years before the Brits got ahold of it and started using it. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Techno
also - since you have trouble finding artists that do these genres...
See:http://www.ishkur.com/music/#

Country: Good call. England has no need for this. It is quite obvious that you folks have no idea what country is about anymore since you still use the horses on the open plain kind of thing - which says something about it's popularity over there- so fair enough.
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Old 03-24-2006, 05:04 PM   #492 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowe
Country: Good call. England has no need for this. It is quite obvious that you folks have no idea what country is about anymore since you still use the horses on the open plain kind of thing - which says something about it's popularity over there- so fair enough.
Well, OK, that is a cliche of the image of country over here, but generally the lyrical content and theme of modern country music is very rooted in American culture and too far removed from the typical British experience to interest us. It doesn't generally have a gripping beat, or novel sounds to grab your attention, so it rests upon the lyics and the tune. Most of the lyrics don't resonate cross-culturally, so the only real selling point over here is the pretty tunes and that just isn't enough to make it popular with most people.

You love Wikipedia don't you! Don't stop using it, you seem to be good at finding the info and its certainly making this discussion better for somebody actually getting information instead of just spounting their mouths off.
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When Pete plays it is 100% live , your music if that's what you call it doesn't sound so good either? so you can't really critercize can you ?
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Old 03-24-2006, 05:16 PM   #493 (permalink)
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I've actually written a lot of the major music articles at Wiki, contributed heavily to the punk, rock, jazz, pages... written tons of the sub genre pages. And yes I DO love it. Most of the stuff I know already, but I definitely check it to make sure my facts are right. And sometimes if I link a wiki article, it's one I've written.

And country... it doesn't do a lot for Americans above the Mason-Dixon line either... so I know how you feel!
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Old 03-24-2006, 05:17 PM   #494 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowe

Ska. The only time the UK had the Americans trumped in Ska was in the Second Wave of Ska, commonly called Two-Tone. We had ska before you did and thats the only reason the UK had something to build off of. Case and point - the Skatalites(this is the first wave existant in our Cajun region). Third Wave ska is completely dominated by our West Coast ska bands and further strengthened by the few greats coming from the East Coast.
Huh? Pretty much all the original Ska bands were from Jamaica , as i`ve explained the UK has a large population of Jamaican immigrants who bought it over & made it popular in the UK along with the Mods who embraced it too. So no , you didn`t have Ska before us at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowe
Techno (and all of the other electronic sub genres you mentioned. Girlband pop is not a real genre so) Was invented in Detroit, Michigan - and existed about 10 years before the Brits got ahold of it and started using it. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Techno
also - since you have trouble finding artists that do these genres...
See:http://www.ishkur.com/music/#
Even if it was invented in Detroit most techno i`m aware of originated in Europe based on what Kraftwerk started.In fact New Order were taking inspiration from Italian house music in 1981/82 which led in turn to Blue Monday being created.But even so it was the Brits who ran with it.Dance music became one of the biggest genres here in the 90s thanks to the likes of The Prodigy , The Chemical Brothers , Fatboy Slim , Orbital , Basement Jaxx , Underworld , The Orb , & Death In Vegas. I can`t think of any American dance acts who came close to even challenging them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowe
Country: Good call. England has no need for this. It is quite obvious that you folks have no idea what country is about anymore since you still use the horses on the open plain kind of thing - which says something about it's popularity over there- so fair enough.
We were joking , the fact is like I said it`s American folk music , ours is different.There`s no need for us to do country music.
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Old 03-24-2006, 05:23 PM   #495 (permalink)
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Huh? Pretty much all the original Ska bands were from Jamaica , as i`ve explained the UK has a large population of Jamaican immigrants who bought it over & made it popular in the UK along with the Mods who embraced it too. So no , you didn`t have Ska before us at all.
Check that band I pointed out.. the Skatalites. Jamaican immigrants in America - ska - before any of the british ska. Look it up... I'll use wiki again... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ska
have a sit down and give it a twice over.

Quote:
Even if it was invented in Detroit most techno i`m aware of originated in Europe based on what Kraftwerk started.In fact New Order were taking inspiration from Italian house music in 1981/82 which led in turn to Blue Monday being created.But even so it was the Brits who ran with it.Dance music became one of the biggest genres here in the 90s thanks to the likes of The Prodigy , The Chemical Brothers , Fatboy Slim , Orbital , Basement Jaxx , Underworld , The Orb , & Death In Vegas. I can`t think of any American dance acts who came close to even challenging them.
Thats all fine and dandy - but you change the focus of the argument to better fit your point. In order to combat doing the same thing - I gave you 2 links to go check out and read over. They are non - biased links and they provide much more insight than your popular dance bands. You also said "biggest genres here" - great, on your island it was big. A big genre in Texas would be - technically - a bigger genre than a genre in your whole country, if we are talking numbers. Because they are "big" in your mother country doesn't make it better.

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We were joking
I know. I laughed.
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Old 03-24-2006, 05:42 PM   #496 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowe
Check that band I pointed out.. the Skatalites. Jamaican immigrants in America - ska - before any of the british ska. Look it up... I'll use wiki again... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ska
have a sit down and give it a twice over.
I`d rather go by their official biograpy.....

The Skatalites Biographical Information
In Jamaica in the mid-50's, a fledgling recording industry saw the birth of what became known as Ska. Created by fusing Boogie-Woogie Blues, R+B, Jazz, Mento, Calypso and African rythyms, Ska became the first truly Jamaican music and by the 60's all the vocalist were swarming to the studios to record their songs to this infectious new beat. Bob Marley, Peter Tosh, Toots and the Maytals, Jimmy Cliff, Alton Ellis, Ken Boothe are just a few of the names who came to record this new music, which coincided with the whole island's excitement about Jamaica's independence in 1962. The core musicians playing on most of these sessions saw the opportunity to play this music live to the public.Tommy McCook, Rolando Alphonso, Johnny Moore, Lester Sterling, Don Drummond, Lloyd Knibb, Lloyd Brevett, Jerry Haynes, and Jackie Mittoo began working together in 1963 and formed The Ska-talites in May 1964.

Spring 1964
The Skatalites record their first LP at Studio One in Kingston, Ska Authentic, and tour the island as the creators of Ska. Their recordings for various producers rule the airwaves, stations JBC and RJR, that is. Foremost among their producers were; Clement 'Sir Coxsone' Dodd, Arthur 'Duke' Reid, Cecil 'Prince Buster' Campbell, Vincent 'King' Edwards, Justin 'Phillip' Yap, Leslie Kong, Lindon Pottinger,Sonya Pottinger and Vincent 'Randy' Chin. The Skatalites led sessions with all the top artists and helped to break young talents such as Delroy Wilson, Desmond Dekker, The Wailers, Lee Perry, etc.

Fall 1964
Don Drummond's composition, "Man In The Street", enters the Top 10 in the UK. Trombonist Drummond is not only the Skatalites busiest composer, but the most prolific in all of Ska, with at least 200 tunes to his name by 1965.

Sorry , don`t see the U.S. mentioned there anywhere



Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowe
Thats all fine and dandy - but you change the focus of the argument to better fit your point. In order to combat doing the same thing - I gave you 2 links to go check out and read over. They are non - biased links and they provide much more insight than your popular dance bands. You also said "biggest genres here" - great, on your island it was big. A big genre in Texas would be - technically - a bigger genre than a genre in your whole country, if we are talking numbers. Because they are "big" in your mother country doesn't make it better.
I`m not changing my focus at all , I said from the start things start off in the US & the UK works off that and moves forward with them, i`d say that the UK dance scene is a perfect example of that.And I think you`ll find a good handful of those bands mentioned had a lot of success outside the UK too.
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Old 03-24-2006, 06:19 PM   #497 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowe
Sometimes I hate this forum. I had a huge response I wrote and then I had to sign in and then it erased my post. Pissed off. In summary.

Right Track. Was goofing around with you, get off the defensive.

Emo. Started in Washington DC. Americans definitely do emo and indie-emo better.
Husker Du.
Sonic Youth.
The Pixies.
Rites of Spring (considered to be the founders of emo)
Embrace.
JSBX.
Weezer (who had Pinkerton - the quintessential emo album of the 90's)
were a few of the bands mentioned.
Sonic Youth are emo??...O_O....And americans do emo better?...Last time i checked there is no UK emo scene...However, arent many emo bands influenced by UK bands such as The Cure, Joy Division, Echo And The Bunnymen, Gang Of Four, Siouxsie & the Banshees and The Smiths?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowe
Ska. The only time the UK had the Americans trumped in Ska was in the Second Wave of Ska, commonly called Two-Tone. We had ska before you did and thats the only reason the UK had something to build off of. Case and point - the Skatalites(this is the first wave existant in our Cajun region). Third Wave ska is completely dominated by our West Coast ska bands and further strengthened by the few greats coming from the East Coast.
Shouldnt Jamacia be taking credit for all this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowe
Techno (and all of the other electronic sub genres you mentioned. Girlband pop is not a real genre so) Was invented in Detroit, Michigan - and existed about 10 years before the Brits got ahold of it and started using it. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Techno
also - since you have trouble finding artists that do these genres...
See:http://www.ishkur.com/music/#
What?....Technos history is much more complicated than you make it out, the template for techno is electronic music of various styles...Electronic musics history can can go way back to Krautrock bands like Kraftwerk and Neu!, we wouldnt have techno without them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowe
Country: Good call. England has no need for this. It is quite obvious that you folks have no idea what country is about anymore since you still use the horses on the open plain kind of thing - which says something about it's popularity over there- so fair enough.
Ok we take country, but DontRunMeOver is right.
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Old 03-24-2006, 06:20 PM   #498 (permalink)
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for dance, i don't know where these are from, well not all of them:
Dj amouro
smile.dk
akira yamaoko
DJ sammy
blumenchen
DJ taka
scorcio
Naoki
and others...
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Old 03-24-2006, 06:23 PM   #499 (permalink)
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I didn't type very clearly - so I see where the misinterpretation was made... I didn't say - or mean to say - that the Skatalites were from America or American - I was merely pointing out their Jamaican years, and then went on to connect them with our Jamaican immigrants in the cajun country. So, go back to that link and read again where ska started.

Quote:
A genre of music stylized by the influences of American jazz and swing, born out of Jamaica. It underwent three waves, Trad(itional), Two-Tone, and 3rd wave. The guitar is always played on the off beats, or "upstrokes." The bass line is almost always a walking bass line unless the band is more punk influenced (however, ska is what helped bring about punk), and there is a horn line, usually with some swinging stuff. Ska gave birth to many different types of music, such as rocksteady, reggae, punk, rap and hip-hop (it's true).
Our New Orleans Jamaicans had a ska scene in New Orleans and lower Mississippi in the 1950s.

You will also find that ska was started in Jamaica through the American influence.

Quote:
I'm aware of was...
The credibility of your argument stops here... that's why I gave you those links to check out like I did, so we could both be with a same amount of information. Those links give a comprehensive and thorough guide to Electronic music.

Quote:
UK Dance scene
Yes. The UK Dance scene. It is the UK Dance scene.

If we break into a dance discussion, I'm afraid hell would break loose - dance is so much a wordly thing with influences coming from everywhere you can think of.

BOO BOO-
So I don't know if you went to those links or not - it explains where I'm coming from - here we go...

Sonic Youth - influenced the indie-emo scene, notice I put indie-emo in my "Emo" statement.

Perhaps they were influenced by those UK bands, but that doesn't mean that they were entirely influenced by them... so that point is kind of moot, don't you think? Plus influence isn't analagous with "Greatness" - yet we continue to look at them like they are the same, myself included.

Shouldnt Jamaica be accredited with this?
Yes. But this is UK v US thread. So we talk about who does it better.

Techno- The links I gave you include the German influences.

Country has been dealt with.

Generally. I think a thread like this is absurd, but I always get sucked into them. I think versus threads lead away from general discussion and sets the stage for prideful competition. It also leads to sacrificing some beliefs in order to make a point. It's somewhat nauseating. I think my first post here (which I was in agreeance with someone else who made the same point) still stands. We both do different things well - and I don't think music should be a competitive thing... it should just be here to be enjoyed. I love British music. I love American music. Why should I be compelled to turn them against each other?
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Old 03-24-2006, 06:30 PM   #500 (permalink)
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Where did I say that Ska wasn`t influenced by American artists?

You didn`t say New Orleans had Ska , you said the U.S. did. Big difference.
A few immigrants in one city does not mean the U.S. can lay claim to it.

I said in my post that the UK became the first to embrace it as a country , nothing in your sources contradicts that at all.As I keep saying the UK takes influences & builds on it.The Jamaican ska acts came over to the UK where they got their audience which in turn led to 2-tone , which was all British. That in turn led the the American ska bands of today.
As Boo Boo said the Jamaicans should lay credit to Ska , but the fact is it came to a bigger audience with it`s success in the UK.

And please tell me where the credibility on my arguement on dance music fails.
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